A few days ago I had the pleasure of interviewing Jo, a woman who is part of my Ex Boyfriend Recovery Program.

Like I’ve been saying for the past few weeks. I’ve been conducting this massive site wide/product wide interview series where I’m sitting down with real life success stories and asking them exactly what they did to be successful in getting their exes back.

Thus far we’ve learned a lot of interesting things.

1. Every single one has used some form of no contact
2. Every one seems to stick to our plan for the most part but isn’t afraid to adapt when necessary
3. So far, every one mentioned that they got to a place emotionally where they didn’t want their exes back anymore

But Jo’s particular success story was fascinating for a number of reasons.

Firstly, her ex had blocked her so that’s always an immediate pay attention factor but what really impressed me was how she completely changed the paradigm so that when she got him back he was literally saying,

“Wow, you seem so different. You’ve completely changed”

So, without further ado I’d like to introduce you to Jo!

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How Jo Got Her Ex Back After Being Blocked

Chris:
Okay, today we have a big treat. We’re going to be talking to Jo, who was one of our success stories in the private Facebook support group, and she bought our program. We’re going to be asking her lots of questions about what she did to successfully win her ex back. But let’s just introduce ourselves. So tell us a little bit about yourself, Jo.

Jo:
Hey, Chris. Well, I’m from Sydney, Australia. And yeah, I’m 26. What about me did you want to know?

Chris:
Oh, well, basically just tell me a little bit of the background with you and your ex. How did you guys-

Jo:
Oh, okay.

Chris:
What caused the breakup, and we could just go from there.

Jo:
Okay, yeah. So with my ex, who’s now my boyfriend again, we’re actually family friends. I have known him since I was born pretty much. My dad and his dad were best friends when they were in high school back in the Philippines. We were together for a year and a half and we broke up because I was too toxic. I was insecure, I dwelled on the past a lot in our relationship and I guess he just got sick of it and he left. He was a nice guy, he took it all in. He didn’t really say much. I think when I … So the day before he broke up with me, he was at a party and then I got upset that he didn’t invite me and I went psycho. And then the-

Chris:
So, hold on.

Jo:
… next day he broke up with me.

Chris:
Hold on. Okay. Okay. Define psycho? What kind of psycho behavior did you do in your eyes?

Jo:
Well, I spoiled his night. Instead of letting him enjoy his night with his friends, he was arguing with me. I just got upset that he didn’t invite me with his … To go to the catch up he had with his friends. And then you’re like … And then I blew up the smallest issue to the biggest issue, then the next day he broke up with me. He was like, “I’m just sick of it.”

Chris:
So basically, it’s like you just started a fight just to start a fight because you were really upset about-

Jo:
Pretty much.

Chris:
… he didn’t invite you to the party. How does he break up with you exactly? Does he do it in person? Does he text you? Does he do it over the phone?

Jo:
Oh no. We did in person. He was like to me, “Hey, can you come?” The next day, he was like to me, “Can you come over before you go to work, please? Or after you finish work?” So I went before work and then he had a few of my belongings at his house like a few books, and some toiletries. He was like, “Oh, I’m done. Take this, I don’t want to see you again.” And I was [crosstalk 00:03:03].

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Chris:
Going into that meeting, did you have any idea what was about to happen? Did you think it was just a normal get together?

Jo:
No, I actually thought we were going to talk about the night before. Because the night before when he was out hanging out with his friends, before we were on the phone and before he hung up he said to me, “Please, you remember that I love you and please trust me.” It ended fine.

Chris:
Okay. So you patched the thing, the fight up, but he clearly still was very bothered by the behavior.

Jo:
Yes. So I think when he got home that night, he was thinking a lot because I saw him online on Instagram pretty much after. It was like … I saw him on probably like 3:00 AM in the morning. So when I went there, he broke it off and it was embarrassing. I was begging, and his dad was at his house. And because like I told you, my dad and dad-

Chris:
Family friends.

Jo:
… are close and we’re family friends, he was telling my ex that for us to calm down and talk it out. But at the time-

Chris:
What a fascinating dynamic that is, because I-

Jo:
I know.

Chris:
I think that actually helped you in getting him back because it’s like I always-

Jo:
It did.

Chris:
… talk about sphere of influence. It seems like that-

Jo:
Yes. They [crosstalk 00:04:40].

Chris:
The fact that you [crosstalk 00:04:40]. Right. So he breaks up with you, and do you just scour the internet looking for advice right away? Or do you make the classic blunders of continuing to beg for him back for a few days, and try to find out a way to make him come back to you?

Jo:
That day he broke up with me, I begged for about half an hour at his house. And then his dad told me to calm down and give him space. So I gave it like three days. I think I found your program … Yes, that day as well. I saw videos on YouTube, but I didn’t buy your program until after three and a half weeks-

Chris:
Okay, so you first found-

Jo:
… of the breakup.

Chris:
… me through YouTube. So you saw the YouTube videos that I put out and you were like, “Okay, I like the vibe.” But it took you getting into the hole a little bit deeper before you were like, “I need extra help. Someone needs to help me.” And that’s when you pull trigger, you buy the program. Do you get through the program? Or is it one of those situations where you get into the Facebook group and just wing it on your own?

Jo:
Oh, no. No. I was trying to stick to the program to the T.

Chris:
Okay. Obviously, you get him back. But what I’m interested in isn’t so much if you followed the program, I want to see whatever deviations you made from the program. So take me from start to finish. What did you do, in your mind, to help you get him back?

Jo:
Okay. Because I knew the reason why he broke up with me, that I was toxic, and insecure, and yada yada. And I actually had … He could see that I had … I guess you could say that I have anger issues.

Chris:
The interesting thing to me about it is I feel like I would be upset if I was in your position too. But I can also see why he’s upset at you being upset, maybe he just wanted to have a fun time with its friends. But I feel like maybe you getting angry is more like, “Okay, he’s in this environment. Maybe there’s other girls there that hit on him. I don’t want that to happen. I don’t want to get cheated on.” Was there any kind of insecurity like that lingering? Was that-

Jo:
Oh no. No. No. It was just because us … So the people he hung out with, I’ve met all of them. They’re all his workmates. I think I just got upset because I’m so used to us … We’ve been together for a year and a half. We got very comfortable with each other, and we were seeing each other every day. I think just … And we were always together I guess. I think because he didn’t tell me that he was going to hang out with his friends, I saw it on his Instagram. Then I was like, “Okay, you didn’t invite me. What the hell?”

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Chris:
Okay. Okay. I get it. So it’s almost like a break from the norm. You’re like, “Why don’t you-

Jo:
Yes, pretty much.

Chris:
… You always invite me, why aren’t you inviting me now?” And you feel like maybe there’s something wrong, and it just blows up. So you’ve gotten in the program, what do you do next?

Jo:
Okay, so I’ll tell you what I did just a little bit before I got into the program. I spoke to my auntie, we’re very close. I told her about my whole situation and everything, she advised me to get counseling just for my anger I guess. Because I’ve just got some … Because my parents divorced, so I think a bit of … I was affected a lot, but I didn’t realize it. And my dad’s got a template, so I … And I live with my dad, so I think it rubbed off on me and then it affects the other people in my life. So we broke up on the 1st of June, but I didn’t start the program until the 26th of June. Because between that time, I was texting my ex here and there about what put him off. So we were still friends on social media before I went into no contact. It was on the 25th of June, I drunk texted him. And then he thought I lost the plot, so he blocked me. He blocked me on Facebook Messenger, he unfollowed me on Instagram, unfriended me on Snapchat. But-

Chris:
He blocked you full. So were you blocked on the phone?

Jo:
No, I wasn’t. I wasn’t blocked on phone text, I wasn’t blocked on WhatsApp. I was blocked on Facebook, but he didn’t block me on Instagram and Snapchat. So I was just a bit like, “Okay, what’s the [inaudible 00:09:44]?” So that was the 25th of June. I started on no contact on the 26th of June, and then … Yeah.

Chris:
How did your no contact period go? Did you make it through it pretty unscathed? Or was it a battle just to get through those ignoring days?

Jo:
The first 20 days, well I struggled. I was crying every night. So I’ll also give you a little bit on my situation just financially because my ex, he’s got heaps of savings and we had goals of buying a house together and all that. And I have lots of debt. I had credit card debt like 6,000 Australian dollars, right?

Chris:
Okay.

Jo:
To him … Okay, this is what I didn’t like. To him it was … He found that a big issue but the thing is, I never asked him for help or anything to pay off my credit card. I think he just saw it as a hindrance to buying a house together. But the thing is we’re studied, so that’s not a goal until for like another four years. So during NC, I think I struggled the first 20 days because I didn’t do anything for myself really. It was just because I was focused on paying off my credit card, so I didn’t really do that much. It was weird because I cut out a lot of people. I think the only person I kept in contact with a lot was my best friend, and I was with my brother all the time. My parents, I got closer to my parents with my brother. Because him and his girlfriend, they broke up a week after me-

Chris:
Wow.

Jo:
… and my ex. And then I told my brother to join ERP. So my brother joined ERP and we pretty much went through it together.

Chris:
Wow.

Jo:
So he’s pretty much been my rock. And the funny story, they got back together like two weeks ago.

Chris:
That’s pretty awesome.

Jo:
It’s ERP. Yeah. But he didn’t really stick to it, I think he only did no contact for three weeks. Anyways, more about-

Chris:
Oh, that’s okay. That’s okay.

Jo:
Yeah. So with me, yes, I focus on my credit card. So I actually paid off my credit card that had $6,000, I paid that off six weeks after the breakup.

Chris:
Okay. It seems to me the no contact rule … You’ll often hear me talk about the holy trinity health, wealth relationships.

Jo:
Yes.

Chris:
It seems to me like the big thing-

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Jo:
Yeah, I’ve heard the program.

Chris:
… that you focus on was the wealth aspect, which is like, “I need to get out of this credit card debt.” So you just paid the whole thing off throughout the entire period of no contact.

Jo:
Not sure. I actually had … I started with $12,000 [crosstalk 00:12:56] at the start of the year, and then got to half. Then-

Chris:
Okay. That’s pretty good though.

Jo:
Australia … Yeah. And in Australia, tax return time is July so that pretty much helped me pay it off. Then after I paid off my credit card, I was so much better. I signed up for pole dancing, I signed up for aerial yoga, and I went to the gym more. And I spent more time with my brother, every weekend we would play table tennis in the park or something. So after that, I started to become okay. I was crying less, I kept myself busy.

Chris:
So would you say that at any point during your period of no contact, you get to this point emotionally where you were like, “I don’t know if I want him back anymore.” Or was that not even in the cards? You were pretty much like, “No, I want to get him back.”

Jo:
No. There were quite a few times where I don’t want him back. It’s just because I thought that if … I thought because people … So you, ERP, and everyone else kept reminding me that I should know my value. And I did and I just kept thinking to myself those times that I didn’t want him back, I was just like, “We were supposed to be together through thick and thin and he let me down.”

Chris:
So that to you is like, “Okay, he’s not in this as much as I was in it.” And you emotionally through this period of no contact are thinking at some point like, “I don’t know if I want him back anymore.”

Jo:
Yeah. I was also very clingy, so I think that [inaudible 00:14:58].

Chris:
Okay. So how long of a period of no contact did you plan on doing?

Jo:
I was planning … Before the assessment, I thought I was only going to do 30 days. But then when I did the assessment, I had to do 45 days. Yeah, the plan was to stick through the whole 45 days. [crosstalk 00:15:20].

Chris:
Okay. So what happens? I already know a little bit, spoiler alert, because she had this huge write up in the Facebook group. So how long did you make it through no contact?

Jo:
41 days.

Chris:
Okay, that’s still pretty a lot. So what is it that caused you to break no contact early?

Jo:
It was because you know how I told you that I started … Did I tell you I started seeing a counselor?

Chris:
Yeah. You said you went to the counselor.

Jo:
Yes, I’m still going. I still go every three weeks. So I was just telling my counselor about like … I was telling her how I was emotionally, I was getting better. But it was because my ex contacted me on day 30 and on day 32.

Chris:
Okay, so that’s an interesting-

Jo:
Yes.

Chris:
It’s an interesting piece of information. So what does he say when he contacted you on those days?

Jo:
It’s funny because his very first contact was a phone call, not a text. And I was-

Chris:
Okay. So jumped [crosstalk 00:16:24]. He went right up to the phone call.

Jo:
He did.

Chris:
Did he leave a voicemail?

Jo:
No. So he called me, it was 10:00 PM on a Saturday. And I was like, “What the hell?” I was watching Netflix with my mom and my brother, and I had my phone and I was like, “Mom, he’s calling me.” And she was like, “Don’t answer.” So I didn’t answer.

Chris:
Okay. [crosstalk 00:16:48] 32. You said day 32 he-

Jo:
He texted me.

Chris:
So what does he text you?

Jo:
He was like, “Hey, how are you?” And I’m just like-

Chris:
So, the bare minimum.

Jo:
“I need more than that.” Yeah, I was like, “I need more than that.” Oh, I also didn’t tell you but during … Since the breakup, I got off all social media. The only social media I got on-

Chris:
Interesting.

Jo:
… was Facebook for ERP, that’s it.

Chris:
Okay. But you weren’t posting-

Jo:
That’s it.

Chris:
… anything on social media, you just went-

Jo:
No.

Chris:
… silent. Interesting.

Jo:
I actually deleted all the apps. I deleted Instagram, Snapchat, everything. I just deleted the apps.

Chris:
Just not to tempt yourself. Was that an executive decision on your part to stop you from obsessing about what he was posting?

Jo:
Yeah, I guess so. Because I was in … It was weird because every time I would open those apps during the breakup, my heart would be palpitating.

Chris:
Really?

Jo:
I think because I was so worried about what I was seeing. No, and also I think because the first week of the breakup, I was checking his Instagram. He was posting a lot. He posts on his stories. He would post a lot, he was posting like 10 stories a day. And before, he hardly posted.

Chris:
Excessive. That is so excessive.

Jo:
I know. And then I watched one of your videos, the one that says why do they post so much? And it was about I think filling the void and I could see it. And I think he wanted to show me that he was doing okay. But then yeah, I got off. I was just like, “This hurts too much.” So I got off. Even being on Facebook made me nervous. I wouldn’t scroll through my newsfeed, I would just type in the search bar “ERP” and then just look at new posts-

Chris:
Go to the group. Okay.

Jo:
… or whatever. Yeah, that’s it.

Chris:
Stay in the safe space of the group.

Jo:
Yes.

Chris:
Got it.

Jo:
Yes, that’s it.

Chris:
That’s pretty funny. Okay he contacts you with the obligatory, “Hey, how are you?” And you eventually do you respond to him 10 days later.

Jo:
Yes.

Chris:
How do you respond? And what is behind the decision to break no contact? Granted, it’s 41 days, so you almost made it to the end. But what’s behind the decision to break it? And what do you respond with?

Jo:
Okay. It was just because it was him contacting me was driving me crazy. And I was thinking, and also my brother and my battle buddy like, “Why? I wonder why he’s contacting me?” So day 41 I had a counseling session, so then I was telling my counselor about ERP and the whole no contact rule thing. And she agreed with the whole … With the reasons for it, that to let emotion settle from both parties and to heal pretty much and find yourself again. But then when I told her about my ex contacting me, she … Because I told her, “Oh, it’s driving me crazy. I don’t know what to do. Why is he contacting me? He blocked me on pretty much everywhere except phone and text.” I actually thought he blocked me on the phone, but then him calling me and texting me confirmed that. Anyway, so my counselor said to me, “People don’t reach out for no reason, especially men.” And then that’s what made me break my contact.

Chris:
Okay, so the counselor basically says, “No, you should …” So what do you use? Or what do you say to him? Did you call him? Or do you send a text message to him? Or what’s your plan?

Jo:
I sent a text message, but it was that like a usual ERP one. I already had one plan, the hook-

Chris:
The curiosity thing.

Jo:
… question.

Chris:
Hook thing.

Jo:
Yeah. I didn’t do that.

Chris:
Okay. No. No. No. That’s good. That’s good. So what was it that … Because to me, it seems like the hook thing, you don’t really need because he initiated the contact already. So what was it that you said back? Did you just respond to his initial question 10 days later? Or did just start a new thread or a new conversation?

Jo:
Well, he just said, “Hey, how are you?” So I was pretty much … I just said, “Hey, sorry for not replying to you. I just needed a bit more time to heal, and I’m ready to talk now if you’re ready to talk. Would you like to catch up?”

Chris:
Wow. Okay.

Jo:
Yeah. Pretty much.

Chris:
You went right to it. That’s interesting. Okay. So you basically … You did something interesting, which is you labeled this awkward silence. Because he sends the text message on day 32, and then you respond to him on day 41. So that means almost … a little over a week has gone by and obviously the number one question he’s going to have if you respond to that text message is like, “Well, where the hell were you?” But you seem to cut that off immediately by basically just saying like, “Hey, I’m sorry, it took so long to respond. Let’s catch up.” Now, usually we don’t advise to go right for the kill like that. Usually you try to-

Jo:
Yeah, I know.

Chris:
…. build a bit of rapport. But it sees to have worked out for you. So does that scare him off a little bit? Or does he wrap around that opportunity to see you in person?

Jo:
Well, after that … Okay, so I’ll just give you my thoughts on why I sent that, it’s just because I felt like my counselor was like to me, “Oh, you should be genuine if you really want to repair the relationship with him.” So that’s what I did. And funny thing, he responded in 10 minutes and he was so positive. He was like, “Yeah-

Chris:
So the no contact really had an effect on him.

Jo:
It did. It did. I can tell you what … I guess we were going to what happens when we meet up. He pretty much said, “Oh, hey, that’s okay.” I’m trying to think of because I can’t scroll up to the message, but he pretty much said, “Oh hey, that’s okay. I’m just busy with school at the moment and it’s assessment time, can we catch up in three weeks?” I was like-

Chris:
Wow.

Jo:
“Yes.” And then he was like, “How’s work and everything?” And then I responded. I said to him, “Yeah, that’s fine. I know you’re busy with school. Whenever you’re free from assessments is fine.” And then when he asked me, “How’s work and everything?” I went straight in because I know my credit card bothered him. I was like to him, “Oh yeah, I’m good. Work’s good. I paid off my credit card three weeks ago.” And then he didn’t reply until three days after because he had assessments. But yeah, I was worried when he didn’t respond. I thought it got him thinking because I guess I proved him wrong. He thought I was going to be telling there forever. Then he replied to me to that text message three days later, it was a Sunday and I was so excited. Because his text message was … His first text message that day was very long. He was talking about … He was saying, “Oh, hey sorry for the late reply. I had a hectic week.” And it was funny because he’s studying of film and television.

Jo:
So he was telling me about his assessment, and he was giving me the thesis statement and everything, and I’m just like … I showed my brother, I was like, “That is a lot of effort. And that is [crosstalk 00:25:02].” it was … Yes. It was so wordy, I was like, “Wow, he actually lost me.” And then I got excited and I tried not to show that I was excited, so I replied two hours later.

Chris:
Okay, so you have some-

Jo:
And then … Yeah.

Chris:
… some control. Wow.

Jo:
Yeah. So I responded two hours later, and then he tried to reciprocate me. He responded … So we were pretty much texting that whole day. He was responding to me. He responded to me after that an hour. So then the next five texts, there was an hour gap from each of us. And then I think when it hit like 6:00 PM, six o’clock in the evening, he was taking like 10 minutes to apply.

Chris:
Okay, so it was just like-

Jo:
And I would take half an hour.

Chris:
It’s kind of like-

Jo:
It was a good day.

Chris:
It was kind of like back to normal. You slowly come back-

Jo:
Kind of, yeah.

Chris:
… to that texting routine. so I’m curious. So he says, “I can’t see you for three weeks.” Did you guys end up meeting up earlier than [crosstalk 00:26:02]?

Jo:
We met up … So when he said three weeks, we ended up meeting five days later.

Chris:
Okay, so it was basically BS by him. He’s trying to play cool, essentially is what that was.

Jo:
Yeah. So because I started to feel okay now, I started posting again on my socials. And then you know how I took up pole dancing, I posted like a short video and he saw that.

Chris:
Okay, that way so he wants to take you out. That’s funny.

Jo:
I think it was the credit card that really shocked him.

Chris:
I think it was not just a credit card, I think it was and all of the above, this con-

Jo:
Everything.

Chris:
All these things that just match up and just create the perfect cocktail. So essentially, you just talked to him for five days and he’s like, “Hey.” So who negotiates? Is it him saying “Hey, I need to see you.”?

Jo:
He was like to me … Oh, I’ll tell you, I forgot to tell you. I just felt like when we were in our old relationship, I had no hobbies. I had no hobbies whatsoever, because we were together all the time. And it was pretty much he was my whole world. But then I ended up taking up three hobbies when we broke up. And I’m still doing it now, which is good.

Chris:
Yeah, that’s good.

Jo:
So I’m sticking to being UG.

Chris:
Okay. It’s good.

Jo:
So after he saw my pole dancing video, he messaged me. He was like, “Oh, hey, are you free? I don’t have work today. I just finished school.” And then I was like, “Wow, okay.”

Chris:
Wow. So he sees the pole dancing video and it’s like an immediate response.

Jo:
Yes.

Chris:
Okay. Wow.

Jo:
But actually, then … So he said that. He was like, “Hey, are you free? I don’t have work today. I just finished school.” He said to me he wanted to show me his projects for his assessments because he’s doing film and television like I said.

Chris:
Yeah. I mean, you got to make it sound-

Jo:
I don’t know [crosstalk 00:28:04].

Chris:
Yeah, it seems to me it’s like he gets all hot and bothered by the pole dancing video and he’s like, “Oh, I got to see her now, but I need to make it sound like it’s not going to be about that.” So he’s like, “Well, come look at my assessment.” So you obviously go, right?

Jo:
Yeah.

Chris:
You go and see him and how does that interaction work?

Jo:
Oh, okay. Well, actually because I’m very … I would like to call myself a bookworm just before I get into that with the meeting up again. So when he asked me if I could see him because he needed help as well, he just wanted some advice because he’s not really strong with essays. So I said to him, “I can give you pointers if you want.” And he was like, “Oh, that’s what I always admired about you. You’re so good academically.” blah, blah, blah. Anyway, so the meetup I was hella nervous. Because I live with my dad, I told my dad that I’m going to hang out with my brother because I didn’t want him to know. I didn’t want anyone else to know. Anyway, so I got there. I tried to look my best, but it was just at his house, so it was just not to overly dressed.

Jo:
But what really shocked me was that I surprised myself because I was expecting to want him back so much, and I expected my feelings to be so strong for him. But when I saw him, it didn’t feel as strong as I expected it to be. So I think-

Chris:
Oh, that’s awesome. It’s really interesting you say that. No. No. What’s really interesting about that is ever since I’m doing these interviews, the people who’ve gotten their exes back feel the same exact way. And I think it’s about how they use their time during no contact.

Jo:
Yeah, it was. I think-

Chris:
And I feel like-

Jo:
Yeah. Sorry, go ahead. No. No. No. Okay, so I’ll just say this. I think it was the company I missed. I think you also said this in one of your books, because I think I’ve bought everything from you. It was the company I missed, not him. So I saw that when I saw him.

Chris:
[crosstalk 00:30:27] you got so used to that routine. And then just [crosstalk 00:30:31] away one day.

Jo:
Yeah. And then I got used to being by myself, and then I’m seeing him again.

Chris:
So you saw him again, though, obviously. And you get there and you’re just like, “Wow. I still love this person, but I expected to get weak in the knees and faint or something like that. But that didn’t happen and at all.”

Jo:
Yeah. You’re right, it didn’t happen.

Chris:
So you almost surprise yourself. Now, you get there-

Jo:
Yeah, I was really shocked, and then something else that he said … Then he said something else that put me off. I was like for a minute, I didn’t want him back. But anyway, so I’ll tell you what happened.

Chris:
Yeah, for a minute.

Jo:
Yes. Okay. When I got there, his mom cried when she saw me. She was like, “I missed you so much.” I was like, “Holy shit.” She cried, I was like, “Wow.”

Chris:
So it does help to have that sphere of influence on you sometimes.

Jo:
Yes, it does. And then I think his dad was having a nap, but his parents were home at the time. This was like three o’clock in the afternoon. His dad was having a nap. And then I was just in my ex’s room. He actually showed me his assessment, he showed me two videos. So he showed me that. And then his dad woke up just as we were going to go for a walk, and his dad hugged me as well and was like to me, “I missed you so much.” I was like, “Wow.” I was like, “Oh my god, they’re really in my circle of influence.” Anyway, in your videos and in the ERP program, you talk about not talking about the break up when you first meet, right?

Chris:
Right.

Jo:
So I had that in mind, but my ex went off. He talked about the breakup so much, I was like, “Oh my god. What the hell?” Because I said, I was like to myself, “I thought he wanted to talk about his assessment. Why is he talking about the breakup so much?”

Chris:
Well, it’s because the assessments weren’t the real reason he wanted to see you obviously. That was just an excuse.

Jo:
Yeah, I guess. Well, I didn’t think that. In my mind, I was just like, “Okay, be UG. Don’t talk about the breakup at all.” And then so we went to the park nearby his house and we talked for like an hour. It was pretty long. So we had the talk, he talked about the breakup so much. A few things that put me off so much. The first thing, he talked about how he felt like he was the victim in our old relationship.

Chris:
I’ve taught … See, I say that all the time in the videos though, don’t I? I said like, “Even though they’re the ones who broke up with you, they will victim mentality [crosstalk 00:33:29].”

Jo:
Yes. Yeah. So I remembered that. I didn’t react.

Chris:
[crosstalk 00:33:33] almost. So you didn’t like that, so that put you off. What else put you off?

Jo:
Then he said … Because he asked me, he was like to me, “Oh, you know what?” I think the reason why I was obsessed with wanting him back so much is because I didn’t even go on one date during no contact.

Chris:
Okay. So I kind of get [crosstalk 00:33:53] this is going.

Jo:
I was scared and I felt like I wasn’t ready.

Chris:
Okay. So I’m guessing he went on a few dates with some few girls?

Jo:
Yeah. So he asked me. He was like to me-

Chris:
Have you [crosstalk 00:34:08].

Jo:
“Are you seeing anyone?”

Chris:
Right.

Jo:
Yeah, he was like, “Are you seeing anyone?” I was like, “No, I haven’t been on one day.” I felt like I should [inaudible 00:34:15].

Chris:
You probably just really should have went on a date, even if [crosstalk 00:34:20].

Jo:
Yeah, I know.

Chris:
Okay. Then-

Jo:
And then-

Chris:
… did he say he had been on a few dates?

Jo:
I didn’t want to ask him because I didn’t want to know because I [crosstalk 00:34:34].

Chris:
You didn’t want to be that girl too.

Jo:
Yes. Because he knew me as a psycho. The smallest things, I would blow up. Anyway. So then I asked him, “Are you seeing someone?” Then he was like, “Yeah.” And I was like, “Shit.”

Chris:
Oh, does that mean [crosstalk 00:34:52] relationship with someone?

Jo:
No. No, just seeing.

Chris:
Okay, so he just went on a few dates.

Jo:
Pretty [crosstalk 00:35:00]. Yeah, he went on a few days with this girl. Anyway, so that put me off. I was like, “I don’t want him back anymore. I don’t [inaudible 00:35:06].”

Chris:
That works to your favor though, having that mentality, I think. Because it knocks him off the pedestal, you know?

Jo:
Yeah. But because he knew me as I reacted to everything. I kept my cool like, I just stood there. I was like, “Oh, okay.” And he was really shocked. He was really shocked. So he said that to me, and then I asked him, “How long have you been seeing this girl?” He was like, “Two months.” And I was like, “We’ve only been broken up for two and a half months, that was really quick.” Yeah, it was really quick. And I’m just like, “What the hell?” In my head, I was going crazy. I was like, “How the hell did you move on so quickly?” But my outside, I was just quiet and he looked at me like … He was like, “Oh.” I could see he was confused that I wasn’t reacting because usually I would. But then I remembered be UG, keep your cool.

Chris:
Yeah. You did good. You did good.

Jo:
That’s what I did. That’s what I did.

Chris:
So what happens next?

Jo:
So then, we were talking, we started walking around the blocks. So then he was like to me, “Oh, you’ve really shocked me.” I was like, “Why?” Then he was like, “You seem like a completely different person.” I was like, “Oh, thank you.” And then I smiled. And then you know what, Chris? I let him do all the talking pretty much the whole day, I didn’t-

Chris:
That’s what you’re supposed to do. Yeah.

Jo:
I remember towards the end of the ERP, let him lead. So that’s what I did, I let him lead. I listened a lot and he talked so much. So we were all walking around the block. And then he was like to me, “Oh, I still love you.” I was like, “Oh, do you?” And then he was like, “Yeah.”

Chris:
So he’s seeing someone loosely at this point?

Jo:
Yes.

Chris:
Well, I guess that are kind of dating but not really. They’re in that gray territory.

Jo:
Yeah. They’re not in a relationship. They weren’t in a relationship, no one knew of her he told me.

Chris:
Okay. So it was just some girl he was taking on dates, but-

Jo:
Oh, his parents knew her. But, that’s it. Just his parents.

Chris:
So at this time, he’s still seeing this girl technically then?

Jo:
Yeah, but he told me the last time he saw her was like three weeks. So it was three weeks prior.

Chris:
Okay. So it had been a while.

Jo:
[crosstalk 00:37:48] while. It seems like he just got bored with it. It was like the typical rebound.

Chris:
No, he got busy with school. That’s [inaudible 00:37:52]. He got busy with school.

Jo:
Oh. That’s interesting too, because he was busy with school and he started reaching out to you, and he-

Chris:
Yeah, because he said-

Jo:
He saw you five days later, even though he was still busy with school. Yeah, so I’ll tell you this. The day he broke up with me was the day before his first day of school. He said to me the day … The day he broke up with me he said to me, “I’m going to be studying, I don’t want any distractions.”

Chris:
Okay, so that’s a [crosstalk 00:38:26] factor. But I feel like that’s not the real reason he broke up with you, I feel like it’s the excuse like, “Oh, maybe will hold her over.” Okay, so he says, “I still love you.” The very first time you meet up, you’re walking. And he went about it in a very clumsy way. So he basically says, “I’m the victim. Oh yeah, I’ve been dating this chick but I still love you.” So it’s almost like-

Jo:
Yes. [inaudible 00:38:51]. I was like, “Is this guy playing games with me?” That’s why I felt like I didn’t want him back anymore because I felt like I deserved better, because I know my worth.

Chris:
Okay. Okay. So what do you do when he says that he loves you? How do you react to that?

Jo:
I was just like, “Oh, okay.” And then he said, “Oh, my parents loving you is a bonus.” And … What else did he say? Because he talked about that and his parents. And then he said this, like, “I thought I could get through school alone, but I realized I couldn’t.” But then I felt like that put me off a bit as well because I felt like maybe he only wanted to get back with me just for school [crosstalk 00:39:37].

Chris:
Oh, you’re worried. It’s like, “That’s it.”

Jo:
Yeah, that’s what I thought. That’s what I thought.

Chris:
So how do you physically-

Jo:
And then-

Chris:
… or verbally respond to him saying, “I love you.” That quick?

Jo:
And then-

Chris:
What do you what do you say to that? Do you say anything to it? Do you just ignore it like it didn’t happen?

Jo:
Okay, so he also said, “I want to make this work.” So then I was like, “Yeah, I want to make this work too.”

Chris:
So he just asked for you back right there.

Jo:
Yeah, pretty much. Pretty much.

Chris:
But he did in the most clumsy, strange way possible. So he-

Jo:
We were walking on the street.

Chris:
So he says, “I’m really upset because you hurt me a lot, I’m the victim.

Jo:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Chris:
Oh yeah, by the way, I’ve been dating this girl for three months after we broke up. Oh yeah, by the way, I love you. Oh yeah, by the way, I thought I could get through school alone without you, but I can’t.” Which gives you all these conflicting emotions because you’re like, number one, “You are not the victim.” Number two is like, “How dare you start dating this guy or this girl.” Well, I hope it’s not a guy. And number three is like, “Well, are you just asking for me back because you want my help to get through school?” But it seems like despite all that, you were just were like, “Okay, I’ll take it.”

Jo:
Yeah, but then we both agreed to take it slow. So then I was like, “Okay, we’ll take it so so.” That was good. And then I said to him-

Chris:
Did you ever ask him a little bit about his mentality while you were doing the no contact rule?

Jo:
Oh, yes. Oh my god. Yes, I did. I did. I was like to him, “Hey, so …” Okay. I asked him. I said to him, “Why did you call me?” Because remember that was his first [crosstalk 00:41:22], his reach out. And then he was like to me, “I actually was stuck on an assignment and I needed your help.” So this is what contributed to me thinking-

Chris:
Do you think that’s truthful though? Do you think it was he’s just too prideful to admit like, “I just wanted to talk to you.” So he comes up with [crosstalk 00:41:42] excuse?

Jo:
No, I think he was I’m pretty genuine because when we got back together, I helped him with one of his assignments. I could see him struggling. So I think that was a genuine.

Chris:
Okay. Sounds like-

Jo:
Then I asked him-

Chris:
… you should me a filmmaker.

Jo:
Right. It’s just the theory that he struggled in. But anyway. Then I said I asked him about the text. I said, “Why did you text me, ‘Hey, how are you?'” And then … Okay, so I didn’t tell you this. Four days after the breakup, I left this grand sorry gesture on his doorstep.

Chris:
Okay, so you did the classic like, “I’m going to buy his love back with a huge gift.

Jo:
Yeah, pretty much.

Chris:
That’s going to [crosstalk 00:42:26].”

Jo:
This was four days after the breakup. So I left a note. I talked so much, I’ll tell you what I dropped off actually. So I dropped off a PlayStation game, but-

Chris:
What … Hold on. You’re not getting that easy. What PlayStation game exactly?

Jo:
Oh, GTA 5.

Chris:
Oh, that’s a good one. I bought that game a few years ago after I hadn’t played that, and I was just glued to the TV playing that game for [inaudible 00:42:54] straight. Like, “This is so cool.” But of course, you do the most devious things on that game. So anyways, [crosstalk 00:43:02] you buy him a PlayStation game, what else?

Jo:
Pizza, donuts, a rose, a box of lollies, and a letter. So there was six things.

Chris:
Holy … Oh my god. That’s a lot of stuff.

Jo:
Yes, but then I was just like, that was going to be the last thing from me. I didn’t return any of his things, that was the last thing from me. That was the last thing from me.

Chris:
Okay. It has to hurt that you sent all that stuff and he didn’t say anything about it until 30 days later.

Jo:
Yeah. No, because I also had a letter and I wrote a lot on there. So I’ll tell you that I think the one thing that … So you know how he texts. So in the letter I said to him, “Oh, I should pay off my credit card by August.” And then I asked him … Then when we met up I asked him, “What was your intention behind that?” He was like … Because he messaged me end of July. And then he was like to me, “Oh yeah, I just remembered what you wrote in your letter about your credit card about you paying it off by August. I just wanted to see if-

Chris:
Oh, that’s interesting.

Jo:
… you were able to achieve that.” So that tells me he read the letter because I actually expected him to not read it, but he read it. And because I didn’t … Like when he texted me that, I consulted the ERP group and then they were telling me no. So it was so hard to resist, but I didn’t respond. So when I told him about the credit card, he told me that I proved him wrong. So also … Sorry. When we met up again after telling me all that about he still loved me, he was seeing another girl, and blah, blah, blah. He said to me, “Oh, you proved me wrong, you’ve changed so much. You’ve paid off your credit card, and now you do pole dancing, and aerial yoga, and all these things. It’s like you’re a completely different person.” Oh, and also because you know how I told you that I got off social media. I got off social media completely, I read about 10 books during no contact. And he was proud for me. He actually said to me, “I’m really happy and proud of you for what you’ve achieved.”

Jo:
Anyways. With the, “Hey, how are you?” Text, he said to me, “When you didn’t respond, I thought you had found someone else and moved on.” That’s what he said to me. [crosstalk 00:45:39].

Chris:
So when you did respond, that’s why he responded so quickly. He’s like, “Oh-

Jo:
Yes, I think so.

Chris:
Okay, that’s interesting. When you look back at your experience on how it all works to get him back and everything like that, what do you feel like was the most important piece of advice that you received that was the most helpful?

Jo:
Being UG, and stay in no contact, they were.

Chris:
Okay. So the no contact bit, you mentioned that you really didn’t do too much for the first 25, 30 days other than just focusing on getting the credit card debt paid off.

Jo:
Yeah. And then after that, I was okay.

Chris:
After that, you got into more of the hobby type thing where you mentioned the yoga, pole dancing classes, things like that. Was there anything else that you did during no contact that you’re not maybe mentioning that you felt was really important to getting through it?

Jo:
Reading books. I read a lot of books, I read 10 books.

Chris:
Sounds like you’re cultivating your mind too. [crosstalk 00:46:44].

Jo:
Yeah. And getting off social media was … Having that social detox was really good as well. I felt like when I got back on social media, I was like, “This feels really weird. I don’t want to be back online.” Because I felt like I got strong on my own, I didn’t need-

Chris:
You don’t want it to weaken you out.

Jo:
… the internet. Yeah.

Chris:
Yeah. There’s an interesting relationship we have in social media if you think about it, it’s almost addicting. We go on there to look at other people’s lives and see what’s going on, but that prevents us from living our own lives if you think about it. So by cutting all that out, you were able to focus completely on yourself, maybe finding some passions that you didn’t have before. Because it seems like a big problem of your relationship is you were too wrapped up into him and you didn’t have any kind of independence by yourself.

Jo:
Yes. Yes. I lost myself in the relationship. I did.

Chris:
And how are things going now? How long have you been back together? It looks like you got back together on August 9th, so you guys-

Jo:
No, we got … So almost a month now we are really good. We are really good. Do you want to know what happened with the other girl? The one that he was-

Chris:
I would love to know what happened with the other girl. So did she go crazy trying to win him back?

Jo:
Oh, no. Actually, I was expecting that. I thought she was going to fight for him back.

Chris:
Right. You thought you get in a fistfight with her in the street or something.

Jo:
That’s what I thought. So I said to him the day we met up, I said, “What are you going to do with the girl you’re seeing?” And he was like, “Oh, it’s really slow and it’s still early days. I’m going to end it with her.” And then I said to him, “When are you going to end up with her?” He was like, “Tonight.” So then I saw him the next … Yeah. So then I saw him the next day, and then I said, “Oh …” He was like to me, “Did you tell your dad?” I was like, “No. Did you end it with the girl?” Because I said to him, “I will tell my parents when you’ve ended it with the girl.” And then he showed me the text message. So actually, the day we met up, the girl texted him, she said, “Hey, I know we’re both busy, but you haven’t replied to me and it’s been more than 24 hours already.”

Jo:
So then from that text, I could see that him trying to reach out to me, maybe it’s deviated him from seeing her a bit. And then what really … I was really touched by the text message he sent her. He said to her-

Chris:
That’s interesting [crosstalk 00:49:19] hear that from the-

Jo:
I know.

Chris:
… from the other woman being involved. So what did he say?

Jo:
He was like, “Hey, sorry for the late reply, but I caught up with my ex today and I am so shocked at how much she’s changed in the last two and a half months. I am so happy and proud for what she’s achieved, and I want to make it work with her. I think we’re in it for the long haul.” That’s what he said to her. And then she said to him … I was expecting her to fight, but then she took a like a woman. She was like, “Oh okay.” She said, “Oh okay. Well, I’m just letting you know if it doesn’t work out with her, you can’t come back to me.” That’s what she said.

Chris:
[crosstalk 00:50:05].

Jo:
So I was like, “Shit, she’s she’s UG herself.” And then my ex was like to her, “Yeah, I couldn’t agree more. Wish you all the best.” And then that was it from them. And then-

Chris:
Wow. I love the fact that he even showed you the text message to show-

Jo:
Yeah. It was really long, I was really touched. And then he said to me after he said that … Because we were in this situation before like a year and a half ago where he had to pick between me and this other girl. And then when he said to me, “Oh, I picked you again, you better be worth it.” As a joke, but we know it’s half meant.

Chris:
[inaudible 00:50:43]. So things are going really well it seems like right now for you guys.

Jo:
We are really good. So at the start, we were saying we’ll take it slow, see each other two to three times a week. But just like last week, we pretty much saw each other every day. And I was like to him, “What happened to seeing each other two to three times a week?” And then he was just like, “Oh, no I just miss you a lot.”

Chris:
Aww, so cute.

Jo:
Because I was I didn’t tell him about ERP. But one of your bundles, Chris, like the relationship fitness activity, I read that. So we’ve been bonding a lot. We would go by the water or the beach, and we would listen to a playlist and not talk to each other. We’d also read books together. And it’s funny, because what is working for us now is we’re trying each other’s hobbies. So he’s been coming with me to aerial yoga and Pilates for the last two weeks. And it’s funny because he’s the only guy there but he loves it.

Chris:
That’s great.

Jo:
But yeah, we are really good.

Chris:
No, I hadn’t heard that strategy before of trying each other’s activities, because usually, one party’s-

Jo:
It’s about-

Chris:
… just not interested at all.

Jo:
Yeah, it was like just giving each other space, but it’s actually pretty good. I actually tried playing COD the other day. Do you play COD, Chris?

Chris:
No. So in America, we don’t really have COD. I don’t even know how it’s played. Maybe it’s just a different.

Jo:
Oh, Call of Duty.

Chris:
Oh, Call of Duty, so COD.

Jo:
Sorry. Sorry. Call of Duty.

Chris:
I thought it was Australian [crosstalk 00:52:40].

Jo:
Oh no. No. No. It’s Call of Duty.

Chris:
No. No.

Jo:
Do you play Call of Duty?

Chris:
When I was a high schooler, I used to play. But [crosstalk 00:52:45] 15 different versions of it now. But I remember when they had Call of Duty Modern Warfare, I had the very first original one I used to play that. I used to play Halo, but I grew up and had a family so the video game time is not really there anymore.

Jo:
Yeah. No. Yeah. Yeah.

Chris:
So you did Call of Duty with him?

Jo:
On no. He wanted me to try this gun the other day, so I played for 10 minutes. I was like, “Nah, I can’t do this.” [crosstalk 00:53:15].

Chris:
So the best part of playing that game is going online and just trash talking people over the internet.

Jo:
Well, my mic was off. [inaudible 00:53:25]. But so we’re really good now. We actually had our first argument on Sunday because in Australia, it was Father’s Day, Sunday. So I went out with his family. And he’s very … With his mouth, he’s got no filter so he just says things and he said something that upset me in front of his parents and then … It’s funny because that was like our first argument, but I was trying [inaudible 00:54:01]. I remembered reading ERP like, “You have to maintain being UG.” So old me-

Chris:
I-

Jo:
Yeah. Old me would have went ballistic, and I would have fought with him for like three days about that issue. But you know what I did? I said to him, “Look, I want to sort this out calmly and immediately, and I don’t want it to be like before.” And because we fixed it up straight away and I wasn’t angry or screaming at him or anything, I was strict. And then I just said my point, and then I said, “Let’s move on.” He said to me … When he said this, I just kept remembering how far I’ve come. He said to me, “You’ve really changed. The old you would have went psycho on me, I’m so proud of you.” He said that to me on Sunday.

Chris:
That’s really great.

Jo:
And I’m just in my head. “Yep. It’s about being UG.” So it’s good. It’s going really good.

Chris:
Well, I’m super happy for you. You set a lot of really interesting things that I hadn’t thought of before. Because it seems to me like one of the underlying factors that helped you succeed was, oddly enough, this crazy gift you sent him. It’s almost like … Now, I still think it’s a dumb idea to send a gift period. But the fact that you had sent that letter gave him … It lingered, and it did make him want to reach out during no contact. So as weird as it sounds, the clingy kind of obsessive crazy behavior worked in your favor a little bit, I think. Which is a cool thing if you really think about it. I hadn’t seen much of that. But is there anything else that you wanted to say to anyone listening here who’s really struggling, that maybe would inspire them to keep going or something?

Jo:
Oh, okay. Yeah, definitely. So guys, if you’re listening to this and going through NC and struggling, stay strong. I know it’s hard but it’s temporary, it will pass. Stay in no contact, find hobbies, or do journaling. I forgot to mention that I journaled every day and I’m still journaling now, journaling helps so much. Yeah. Spend time with your friends and your family. Find yourself, you come out so much stronger and I’m glad I did as well.