If you have ever wondered about the effectiveness of the no contact rule and its impact on your overall chances of success with your ex then you’ll definitely want to pay attention to this interview.

I had the pleasure of interviewing one of the latest success of our program, Harley, and was blown away with how well she did, especially during the no contact rule.

It’s better for you to watch so I’ll just cut right to the chase.

What Are Your Chances of Getting Your Ex Boyfriend Back?

Take the quiz

How Harley Got Her Ex Back With The No Contact Rule

Chris Seiter:
All right. Okay. Today I have the pleasure of introducing Harley, one of the success stories that got engaged to her ex in the private Facebook group. I was going through and looking through your posts and the very first post that showed up was the ring. And so I just think you have a really awesome success story that you could share with people. Organically, there’s a lot of questions I’d love to ask you, but first I’d just like to welcome you onto the interview thing.

Harley:
Yeah. Thank you for having me.

Chris Seiter:
Yeah, of course. Before we get to the fun part, why don’t we go to the depressing part? The breakup. Give us some background before we get started.

Harley:
This wasn’t the first time that we’ve broken up. Like you said, I have an on again, off again relationship with him. Well, I did. And when he broke up with me this time, it just seemed a lot different. It seemed like… I’m sorry, my dog is just whining.

Chris Seiter:
Don’t worry about it. We can barely hear it.

Harley:
Okay, good. It’s because he’s like, “Oh, I wasn’t in love with you, but I love you.”

Chris Seiter:
He literally says… Is it an, “I’m not in love with you anymore, but I still love you very much,” type of explanation?

Harley:
Yeah, it was. He said that he had feelings for me. He loved me but he wasn’t in love with me, if that makes any sense. He had strong feelings for me, but didn’t want a relationship with me.

Chris Seiter:
Okay. Did you ever talk to him after you got him back, like “What did you mean by that?”

Harley:
For sure.

Chris Seiter:
What did he mean when you asked him?

Harley:
That his feelings were still strong, but not as strong as they were before. Definitely not as strong as… What happened was he left me for his baby mama because he has a kid with somebody else. And he was like, “My feelings just aren’t the same as they were with her.” Obviously they’re going to have a different connection together because they have a kid together.

Chris Seiter:
They share that.

Harley:
Yeah. And me and him don’t. And he also told me that he just wanted to be single and he wanted to experience that because he just turned 21. And at that time I wasn’t 21. So he was going to the bars all by himself, going out and experiencing that life with his friends. And I was already concerned about that, but I was supportive. I didn’t ever hold back. I told him, “Yeah, go out, have fun with your friends. Call me if you need a ride.”

Harley:
And the night before he broke up with me I actually picked him up from the bar and stuff. And he was talking to me. He was like, “I’m so scared that you’re going to leave me.” Because I was talking to him about how I wanted him to be more loving towards me and do more cute things with me. And he just seemed like I was asking a lot of him. Because with his first relationship with his baby mama, he did a lot for her. And that made him more distant in our relationship. And I tried to tell him, “I’m not her, but I do expect you to do things to show me that you love me or to show me that you still care just to give me peace of mind and all that.” But I guess that was just a lot for him.

Harley:
And that was pretty much the main thing. He was just stressed out and he was like, “I just want to be on my own,” but I know him way too well. I know you’re not going to be on your own. But it ended up he was on his own and I wasn’t on my own. So it was a complete opposite of what he wanted to happen to happen.

Chris Seiter:
Well, it sounds to me like he’s going through… I don’t want to say midlife crisis, but he’s going through a crisis of his life where he’s trying to figure himself out. And he’s really not sure how to reconcile all of the changes that may be occurring. It’s really interesting hot and cold behavior where the day before he breaks up with you, he’s basically… I wouldn’t say begging, but very, very worried about you leaving him, which almost indicates to me the next day when he does break up with you, it might be a self-defense mechanism, an avoidant type thing to do where you’re just like, “Well, if I cut her out, she won’t have the opportunity to hurt me.” Did you ever get any vibes like that looking back on it?

What Are Your Chances of Getting Your Ex Boyfriend Back?

Take the quiz

Harley:
Once I got my mind more focused… Because in the beginning of a breakup, at least with me I get crazy in my mind and I’m overly emotional-

Chris Seiter:
You are not the only one.

Harley:
And I was crying a bunch. Yeah, no. That was a big help with your group that made me realize that I’m not crazy. And this reaction is normal, especially with having a battle buddy. She talked to me a lot about that.

Chris Seiter:
You get to actually experience someone else going through it as well, the same stuff.

Harley:
Yeah. And it helped a lot with my mental health and stuff. But yeah, like I said, I was just really crazy and upset about the breakup.

Chris Seiter:
So he breaks up with you. And you had mentioned before we started recording that this wasn’t the first time that he had broken up with you?

Harley:
Yeah. That would be the second time that he’s broken up with me. The first time was for a good reason, because he was fresh out of a relationship with his baby mama. We were really young. I was just out of high school. We were only dating for three months and he wanted to work things out with his baby mama for the sake of trying to keep his family together… Which I get it now that I’m older. I get it. But at the time being as young as I was… Not really saying much because that was like three years ago, but I understand now.

Chris Seiter:
Well, at the time that has to be very, very hurtful. But with perspective you think, “Okay, I get that.” But this breakup you said seemed different.

Harley:
Yeah. It seemed more serious and more hurtful. I don’t know how it felt more hurtful because he was being a lot nicer about this breakup it seemed with… Communication-wise. But it just seemed a lot more hurtful because at that point we were essentially dating for three years or two and a half years. So there was a lot more emotion packed behind that and I get more emotionally invested than he does. I don’t know. That’s a girl thing though.

Chris Seiter:
That’s not a girl thing. That’s a human being thing. There’s different attachment styles and different investments even for men. But so you go through the breakup, right? It’s awful. And eventually somehow you find Ex Boyfriend Recovery I’m guessing. How did that process go? How did you find us? Were you just frantically searching on Google?

Harley:
Yeah. There was one night where I didn’t really want to be alone. So I stayed the night at my mom’s and I was just crying and I was Googling a bunch of stuff. I was wondering if the way I was acting was normal or if there was something I could do to get him back. Because your immediate reaction when you break up with somebody is, “I want to message them. I want to talk to them. I want to get to know why they broke up with me. Even though they told me why it doesn’t feel like that that is why.” You want to blame yourself for it.

Harley:
And I know I personally was blaming myself for it. It made me feel like I wasn’t good enough or that I was doing something wrong… Which in the end I realized that maybe I was doing a few things wrong, but I wasn’t doing anything wrong that was huge majorly, like relationship ending wrong. And I came across one of your YouTube videos and I started watching that. And then it was like, “Oh, if you liked this video, I have a program.” And so I was like “Huh, that would actually be good.” Because I really liked that video. And I started your program and I listened to the audio books while I was at work. And I went from there.

Chris Seiter:
That’s great. That’s pretty awesome.

Harley:
Yeah. Like I said, it helped me a lot.

Chris Seiter:
YouTube for the win.

Harley:
Yeah. It helped me a lot to realize that I’m not crazy, my reaction was normal, and to get my thoughts straight on how I wanted to go about this, especially not messaging him. There was a couple of times that I did break that and message him for stupid reasons. But in the end it worked out.

Chris Seiter:
Well. So what was interesting to me is before we actually started even setting up this interview, I think Shauna had connected us… Shauna is someone who is a moderator in the Facebook group. And she had said, “Hey, we’ve got a success story.” And then you and I started talking and you had said, “I hope it’s okay. But I actually technically never made it out of the no contact rule.” The no contact rule worked so well on him that you got almost immediate results, which is actually pretty rare. So for me, from my perspective looking at your situation, I think the no contact rule is the key. What did you do? So obviously you find about the no contact rule, but what did you do during it to yield these results? You mentioned you actually failed it a couple of times before you got your string of days where you’re ignoring him together, but take us through that process.

Harley:
Yeah. So I think the one thing that enticed him the most was acting ungettable for sure, because me and him were friends on Facebook still. He didn’t block me or anything. And so I knew he was creeping on my social media because I know him too well. And so I just kept posting things and I started going to the gym and posted about that. And he started going to the gym a year before we broke up. So I knew he was really into the gym scene and he wanted me to care more about my health. So I took that into consideration and I started doing that to get him interested, to show him that I was caring about myself and trying harder to be better. And I think that that’s really what enticed him more.

Chris Seiter:
So you’re posting photos and videos of yourself at the gym, just lifting weights or doing yoga or things like that?

Harley:
Yeah. That or just selfies of my progress and me getting skinnier and all that or me going with my friends-

Chris Seiter:
Sorry. I love the dog in the background with the [crosstalk 00:11:21].

Harley:
She really wants to go outside.

What Are Your Chances of Getting Your Ex Boyfriend Back?

Take the quiz

Chris Seiter:
Well, we can take the interview outside. I’ve never done that before, but if you want to take her outside and walk and talk, we can definitely do that.

Harley:
I just need to put her in my room. She went outside before the interview, but I don’t know what her deal is. It’s nice out.

Chris Seiter:
Yeah. Dogs are dogs. They want what they want.

Harley:
Yeah. Okay. That’s better. Sorry about that.

Chris Seiter:
Oh, no worries. So we’re talking about no contact rule. We’re talking about you basically killing it at the gym posting those… I guess on Facebook was a big thing for you. Did you do it on Instagram or any other social media platforms?

Harley:
He didn’t have Instagram. We were friends on Snapchat, but then he unfriended me like a week later. Because I kept posting things on my Snapchat story and I guess it made him upset or something so he unfriended me. I don’t know why he didn’t unfriend me on Facebook. Probably because he didn’t want to not have contact at all.

Chris Seiter:
And he wanted to spy on you probably.

Harley:
Yeah. No, he was always the first one looking at my Snap stories too for that first couple of weeks. And then he unfriended me and I was like, “Oh, I see how it is.”

Chris Seiter:
Okay. But doing the gym stuff’s not all you probably did during no contact. Or was that pretty much your only focus?

Harley:
No. I went outside more, hung out with my friends more. I just focused on myself, learned how to do things on my own. We have a lot of mutual friends so what I was doing was getting back to him.

Chris Seiter:
So that sphere of influence aspect is just really helping.

Harley:
Yeah, for sure. And I would talk to my friend who would then talk to him and was… Oh my gosh, what just happened? Oh, sorry. I got a call.

Chris Seiter:
Oh, no worries. All right. So you talked to your friend, you talked to him. This is an exciting interview. You keep me on my toes.

Harley:
I talked to my friend who then talked to him because I started getting more comfortable with myself and started trying to go on more dates. And so she was telling him that and he’s a very jealous person. I wouldn’t say jealous in an unhealthy way, but…

Chris Seiter:
It works. It definitely works.

Harley:
Yeah, it worked. So I was going on more dates, trying to get more comfortable with myself and figure out who I am by myself because I’ve been in a lot of long-term relationships. I’ve never tried to focus on myself. So this was the first time I focused on myself and realized who I was and my worth and all that. And she was just telling him that. And that really is what got to him. And there was one night where our mutual friends went out to drink and they were having a party and they were talking about me and she told him that I’d been going on dates.

Harley:
And he just got really upset and started doing some soul searching and he was working on himself and that’s when he messaged me. And at first I wasn’t going to respond back, but I was with my friends and I started freaking out having just this absolute breakdown of a reaction because I was doing fine. I was having just such a great day and a great night. And then I just freaking broke down in front of my friends. And my cousin took my phone and messaged him and was like, “What do you want?” And I was like, “No, Sammy! You can’t do that!”

Chris Seiter:
“You broke no contact! How dare you?”

Harley:
Exactly. Yeah. So it wasn’t my thing for breaking no contact. It was her fault. But it worked out in the end so I can’t get too mad.

Chris Seiter:
Obviously. Well, you had said to me you were at day 40, right? Does that sound about right?

Harley:
Yeah.

What Are Your Chances of Getting Your Ex Boyfriend Back?

Take the quiz

Chris Seiter:
So that’s a pretty extensive period of not having communication, right?

Harley:
Yeah. I broke no contact twice and it was like I went a week and then broke it. Then I went another week and broke it. And then I finally stuck to it because I was like, “This isn’t going to work if I don’t stick to it,” like you said in your book. And I stuck to it and I kept pushing back no contact because I did use the chart to figure out how long I was supposed to be in no contact.

Chris Seiter:
What did it come up with? 45 days?

Harley:
I think it was like 35 days. Yeah. And then when 35 days came up I didn’t know what to message him. And I don’t think I was ready. So I just kept putting it off because I didn’t want it to go bad. I was afraid of failure.

Chris Seiter:
Apparently the message that unlocks everything for you is, “What do you want?” Which I find hilarious. That’s what you ended up messaging him. “What do you want?”

Harley:
“What do you want?” Yeah. I was like, “I don’t want him to play mind games with me and I’m happy where I’m at and I don’t want to waste my time anymore.” Because I was so determined. Because that whole time by myself just helped me so much. Especially with this program, it helped me so much just realizing who I am, what I want, and my value of what I want in a relationship. And if he isn’t going to give it to me, then I don’t want him to talk to me anymore. I don’t want to waste my time with that.

Chris Seiter:
That’s interesting you say that.

Harley:
And that’s why I wanted him to tell me what he wanted.

Chris Seiter:
Well, it’s interesting you say that. So you were at this point where you thought, “If he’s not willing to treat me with respect and be honest about what he wants, then he can go date someone else. I’m over it.” Were you at that place emotionally, truly?

Harley:
Yeah. I was truly like that. And even it was a couple months ago with us being back together, we had just a small little fight about something… I can’t even remember. And I even told him, I was like, “If you are unhappy in our relationship, then things aren’t working out between us and we can go our separate ways. We’ll be much happier without each other. At least we gave it a shot.” You can’t force two people to be in a relationship. It’s just not going to happen. You’re not going to be happy. Neither one of you are going to be happy because one person might be happy and the other person might be unhappy, which just makes it completely negative. And I didn’t want any of that to happen. I just wanted to be happy at that point.

Chris Seiter:
So obviously you have a different mindset by the time you do get in contact with him. Even if that getting back in contact with them part is done by your cousin, the results you got from saying, “What do you want?” Seemed to be pretty good, at least what you screenshotted it in the group. Do you want to talk people through how that initial conversation went?

Harley:
Yeah. He basically just said, “Hey.” And I freaked out and my cousin took my phone and said, “What do you want?” And he thought I was mad. And he was like “Okay, then I’ll just go then.” I was like, “No, that was Sammy. What do you want?” And he told me, he’s like, “I just really miss you and I still love you. And I thought I was going to be good without you, but I’m not. And I’ve been doing a lot of soul searching and been trying to make myself better for you. And it just kills me that we’re apart.” And he’s like, “I need to see you. I just want us to talk this out and see where we’re both at. And I want to know the person that you are now,” because he was obviously creeping on my Facebook and saw that I was just a little bit different than what I was a few months ago before we broke up. And that was basically it. And we kept talking a little bit and then we eventually met up face-to-face. I know that’s breaking a rule.

Chris Seiter:
That’s an interesting thing for me because like I told you before, I want you to be honest about your success. And even if that breaks the value ladder concept, I love it because it tells me something about what’s actually working in real life scenarios. But I remember from when I just looked at that picture of the text, it was a back-to-back-to-back thing where he was like, “I miss you,” and blah, blah, blah. It was a controversial response because your question was ultimately, “What do I do? Do I break no contact to see him?” And it was split in the comments. Some people were like, “Yeah, break it.” Some people were like, “No, stick to it. You’re jumping the value ladder.” You’re saying you basically jumped the value ladder. So it’s a calculated risk on your part. But what went into your decision to jump all the way from basically not texting to an in-person interaction?

Harley:
I wanted to show him how different I was. And I didn’t want him to think that I was sitting there being upset about what happened. I wanted to show him that I am confident and that I’m not sitting here and crying about it anymore, even though I secretly was. But I’m also more of a face-to-face person. I don’t like text messaging. I just think it’s very slow and it would be easier to talk to him to his face. So I talked to him to his face. And I remember him talking to me a couple of weeks ago about how that conversation went. And he said it felt like that I was very emotionally distant, that I didn’t want to be with him anymore. And I wasn’t trying to come off like that, but I also didn’t want him to think that he could say anything and just sweep me right off my feet and I would be right there for him again and want to jump into our relationship again. And I think I really got that across to him.

Chris Seiter:
So your almost prerequisite for jumping that far ahead in the program or process was, “I need to play hard to get. I need to basically show him I’m not going to jump through hoops for you. I’m here to show you who I am now, as opposed to who I was before.” And that came across from his perspective.

Harley:
Yeah. It for sure did. And I think being ungettable really entices somebody. It catches their interest a lot.

Chris Seiter:
So you see him in person and that first interaction that you have, he views you as emotionally distant. Did that change somewhere in that first interaction? Or did it take a few more interactions for him to… I mean, he eventually proposes. So connect us from point A to point B.

Harley:
Okay. Yeah. So one big fight in our relationship was I wanted him to show me commitment and that was another reason that he broke up with me.

Chris Seiter:
You won the fight, by the way.

Harley:
Yeah. Yeah, I did.

Chris Seiter:
Show us the ring. You got to show us the ring. There it is.

Harley:
Oh, don’t mind my pudgy fingers, but I don’t know if you can see it.

Chris Seiter:
It’s more the camera that blurring it. But hey, there’s the ring, people.

Harley:
Yeah. But he was scared of commitment. And I told him, I was like, “That’s the only way I feel like that you could show me you love me,” because at that point we’re going on two and a half years. So I was like, “Where is this going if it’s not marriage? We don’t have to get married right now. I just want an engagement to show that it’s just you and me. And then we can go from there.” But then, like I was saying, I was very emotionally distant and it took a couple interactions. And then eventually I started slowly opening up, not completely. I was still keeping to myself because I was scared of getting hurt again. I was scared of getting too close and then losing it all and being even more of an emotional wreck than I already was.

Harley:
But we did go over our feelings in the moment and why he said what he said. And he basically told me that it was just because he was stupid. And he was scared that I was going to leave him and he was trying to take control of the situation like you said. And he realized once he saw me living my own life, he’s like, “I can’t imagine my life without you. And I just want to be in your life. And it’s sad that you’re living your life without me and I didn’t know what to do being on my own.” So hearing that made me feel so much better. And then… I feel stupid by saying this out loud. A month after us getting back together we eventually moved in because he was living… Moved in together. Because he moved into my apartment. Because at first he was living with his parents.

Chris Seiter:
I don’t think that’s stupid. I mean, you’re engaged. Right? So you almost play by different rules when you’re a fiancée as opposed to just boyfriend, girlfriend. So to me that makes a lot of sense.

Harley:
Yeah. But he moved in with me and we started just spending more time together and he seemed like he changed a lot too in a good way. He’s more emotionally available to me. And he talks more and communicates more and seems to do more. He wants to make me happy. And I can definitely see that now in his actions instead of just his words. Because actions mean a lot to me rather than just saying, “Oh, I’m going to do something,” and then not following up on it.

Chris Seiter:
Nobody actually does it.

Harley:
Yeah. Now he actually does it. Especially on Valentine’s Day. He used to not get me anything for Valentine’s Day. This Valentine’s Day he got me flowers and chocolates and a stuffed animal. And I was like, “Yeah, he’s actually trying this time.” And then-

Chris Seiter:
I like that. It’s interesting. Do you think… I’m sorry to interrupt. You go ahead.

Harley:
No, it’s fine. What were you going to ask?

Chris Seiter:
I was going to ask, some people view… I’ve noticed that some people, it takes a commitment for them to take it seriously, so a legal commitment. When you get engaged, there’s almost a legal aspect to it. You’re making a vow to each other that you’re going to be together for life. And some people need that to start to take it seriously. Do you think that’s why all of a sudden those actions and words began to line up? Because now that you’re engaged, he’s like, “Okay, this is serious. This needs to work.”

Harley:
Yeah. I feel like it means a lot more because, like I said, I was more emotionally there than he was in the relationship. So now it feels like he has something to lose like I have something to lose, especially now that he realizes how much I mean to him because he spent that time apart from me. It made him realize that I mean more in his life than he originally thought.

Chris Seiter:
Did he ever say anything about you dating other guys while you were apart?

Harley:
Oh, yeah. That was a big thing. I wouldn’t recommend… I don’t know. Girls take things a lot different than guys do. To me it wasn’t a big deal. It was just me trying to find myself and figure out who I am, what I want, and experiencing more things. Because I haven’t been in a lot of relationships and being with other people helped me a lot in realizing that and what I wanted. And also I’m in my twenties. You got to experience more things. And he was a little-

Chris Seiter:
He didn’t like that, I’m guessing.

Harley:
No, no. He was a little upset with that. And I don’t know. He made it sound like… I don’t want to use a harsh word, but he made it sound like I was hoeing around, but that wasn’t what it was. So I don’t know.

Chris Seiter:
I mean, you can just go on a date with someone. And I’m guessing there was no vibe between the two of you where it would… You’re still hung up on your ex a little bit. Would that be an accurate thing to say? You were going on the date, but it was like, “Well, I like this person, but I’m not in love with this person.”

Harley:
Yeah. And I was also honest with the guys ahead of time too. I was like, “I don’t know what I’m looking for. I don’t know if I’m looking for a friendship or an actual relationship. Let’s just go on a date and see what happens.” And I told them that I-

Chris Seiter:
Did they take that to mean, “Oh, she wants a boyfriend?” Because I know I’ve been in that exact scenario where a girl told me that. Before I met my wife 15 years ago I’d go on a date and the girl would say, “I don’t know what I’m looking for. I just got out of a relationship.” For me that was like, “Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Me. You’re looking for me.” And of course that wouldn’t ever work out for me.

Harley:
Honestly, if one of those guys were interested in relationship, obviously I wouldn’t go straight into the relationship, but I probably would have tested the waters to see how I’d feel. But at that time I really liked being on my own and not having to worry about anybody else and checking in with anybody else.

Chris Seiter:
So he did not like that. But I would argue that that was an essential part of the process for making him feel like, “Oh, I need to commit because she can go find someone else.”

Harley:
Yes, for sure.

Chris Seiter:
And did he try to go… Because you mentioned he’s got a child with another woman. Did he try to go back to her at all?

Harley:
Yes, he did. Don’t get me started about that because that’s when I-

Chris Seiter:
That’s an off topic. So it went both ways. He was angry that you went and dated other guys or went on dates with other guys and you were probably upset that he went back to the other woman.

Harley:
Yeah. I was like, “You could have started new and gone a different way and you went the same direction that you were going two years ago.”

Chris Seiter:
It’s familiar. It’s familiar for him. That’s not uncommon unfortunately. But you won in the end. So you got that commitment. Looking back on everything, what would you say was the most important factor to your success?

Harley:
Staying ungettable and realizing your value and knowing your value. And being… Also journaling and emotionally aware of your feelings is a big part of it because you shouldn’t be pushing away your feeling. You should be, “Oh, why does this make me feel sad? Or why am I having such an absurd reaction to this?” And just trying to get a hold of it and knowing why you feel that way.

Chris Seiter:
Okay. You’ve mentioned ungettable a lot, which I always like. But I always notice when I talked to people about the ungettable concept, they always have a different way of defining what it means to them. For you what did it mean?

Harley:
That’s a hard question. Or a hard answer to give.

Chris Seiter:
Right? Right? When I was having to write that book, I was like, “I don’t even know how to define this.” So I just asked a bunch of people and I was like, “There’s 50 different definitions for how people view it.” But I’m just curious to see what yours is.

Harley:
I think I would define it as showing that nobody can hold you down, that you are your own person and you can do whatever you set your mind to, basically.

Chris Seiter:
Fortitude would be the adjective you’d use. No matter what, if you get knocked down, you get back up. Lots of fortitude.

Harley:
Yeah. For sure.

Chris Seiter:
Well, you definitely have fortitude and it paid off for you. You got engaged. And how are things now?

Harley:
Oh, they’re great now. Especially I feel more secure in our relationship. Because that’s all I wanted. I wanted him to show me commitment, that he loved me and only me, and wanted a future with me. That was a big thing, is seeing a future, because I have a hard time staying in the present. I look too far in the future, which I’m trying to get better at. But as of right now, it made me feel more secure in our relationship and knowing that I’m the only person he wants to be with, regardless of him and his baby mama and all that. Just being able to feel that way, especially right now.

Chris Seiter:
Yeah. Well, I would just want to say I really enjoyed your success story a lot. I learned some really interesting things about breaking the no contact rule and how you almost have to set that prerequisite of emotionally distance, like how you said you were emotionally distant and that’s the vibe he got. I think that was a huge, huge indicator of you getting him back because immediately it makes him have to work. Like, “I have to work to try to to win her back.” And that’s the leverage aspect that you’re missing when you initially go through a breakup. But I just wanted to thank you so much for coming on and sharing your story and giving people hope. And you didn’t have an easy situation. So thank you so much, Harley.

Harley:
Yeah. Thank you for letting me come on here and tell my story and thank you for your program, because that helped a lot. Especially you help a lot of people too.

Chris Seiter:
Oh, thank you. Don’t don’t make my head any bigger than it is.