A few weeks ago I got a chance to interview the lovely Antia Boyd from Magnetize Your Man and I have to say I was blown away. Now, I know that’s something I’ve said before when I’ve introduced other experts to the community but this girl is on a whole different level.

Usually whenever I interview someone I learn something new but I don’t really put it into practice. There were multiple times throughout this interview with Antia where it felt like a lightbulb went off and I honestly had my mind blown.

So, without further ado I’d like to introduce you to Antia Boyd!

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Attachment Theory With Antia Boyd

• Take her free quiz here
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Chris:
Okay, so today we’re going to be talking to Antia Boyd who, I had the pleasure of talking to about a week ago, we just sort of got to know each other. And it was really interesting, I really loved the way that you kind of structured our relationship. The way you sort of described it was, you’re often taking the clients that I’ll get before they go on the break up, and I kind of get them after. So, I would just love to pick your mind today specifically about some of the attachment styles, and really an interesting thing I’m noticing with my coaching clients. But, first off, how are you doing?

Antia Boyd:
So good Chris, I’m so excited to be here, we’re just past Labor Day weekend so we’re all ready to rock and roll. You know get back at the thing, get your ex back, let’s go.

Chris:
Yeah. So, why don’t you tell us first a little bit about the magnetize your man method. Because she’s, first off the coolest name ever right? Magnetize your man. And second off, what exactly do you help women do when they come into your orbit?

Antia Boyd:
Yeah, totally, totally. Yeah. So I actually developed the magnetize your man method from my own pain. I was struggling myself, attracting a lot of emotionally unavailable men, which you ladies can relate to, because you probably have breakups because of that, right? And I developed a structure which is basically mapping, magnifying and manifesting. So, one thing that needs to happen, we don’t know what we don’t know, right? So you don’t know your blind spots, you don’t know I do lots of different readings and look at the human being at many different levels. I studied personality psychology at UC Berkeley, and really understanding what is our internal dialogue? How’s it translates into action or it doesn’t translate into action, right? And also, how are we distorting actually our reality all the time?

Antia Boyd:
So that’s what the mapping stage really looks at. It also looks at what, are your unique gifts? Because we always believe, once we go through a breakup, we have nothing to fall back on, right? Like our manesty is the all be all end all-

Chris:
Right, right.

Antia Boyd:
… But it actually a teach in the mapping phase like, how many resources you have, particularly personally, so it’s personal to every single person, for yourself that you can totally rely on? Maybe you’re incredibly intuitive, or maybe you’re incredibly an incredible connector, whatever it is, but that’s what we uncover too. So you can build that intrinsic confidence, instead of just the extrinsic one, right? That of course, so many women have.

Chris:
So I’m really fascinated not only by your work but, I’m fascinated to get your take on something that I, I don’t know scientifically how to describe this concept, but it’s something that I’ve noticed a huge pattern in. So here’s kind of the interesting thing I’ve been doing lately. So one of the really cool benefits of having a pretty good audience is, you’ll get the opportunity to talk to a lot of people who actually succeed in getting their exes back. Now, we can debate the merits on, if you should be getting an ex back later but, I’m kind of interested in dissecting specifically, what did they do versus the people who were not successful?

Chris:
And one interesting pattern I’m noting is, a lot of what you’re talking about, which is like that internal value that they kind of get after the breakup but, there’s also this really interesting phenomenon occurring where, most of the time they’ll start out with the blinders on, where they want to get their exes back and then, slowly but surely as they go through my program, and they kind of focus a little bit more on other things, as opposed to their ex, they kind of get to this point where they’re just like, “I don’t want them back anymore.” And then the ex comes back. So I’m kind of curious to get your take on it. I’ve been asking everyone because it’s something, when I’m interviewing these success stories, it’s something I consistently see happen. They get to like this internal mindset shift where they’re just like, I don’t care about him anymore, and then he comes back. So do you have any maybe scientific explanation for that? I mean, it’s okay if you don’t, I’m just kind of curious to pick your mind.

Antia Boyd:
Oh, yeah. I mean, we can really feel when somebody is attached to an outcome, so I studied attachment style theories under Mary Ainsworth, who was of course, under the [inaudible 00:04:28] of Mary Ainsworth, sorry, who of course was studying under john Bowlby. And so, um, whoops, by the way, you don’t know John Bowlby. And so, who was by the way you don’t know John Bowlby, he is the grandfather of the soul attachment style theory, that’s where everything started. And so, what oftentimes happens, men can feel when you’re attached, right? They can feel it because you’re coming from desperation, you’re coming from fear, and you’re coming also from a place of potentially resentment, but it’s a negative emotion. And it’s interesting but, men are actually much more intuitive than we give them credit for, and they can feel when you let go of that attachment.

Antia Boyd:
And that attachment then actually means trust, connection, and you’re coming from a place of love. And who doesn’t want to go back … Like think about it this way Chris, would you rather go back to a place of, if you come back to me, you got a lot of love, or if you come back to me, you got a lot of fear and a lot of resentment and-

Chris:
Right.

Antia Boyd:
… A lot of like constriction, you know?

Chris:
Yeah, that makes sense. So this is a fascinating topic because, anytime I bring up attachment theory, or attachment styles within our private Facebook group, or to my clients, they eat it up, they love this stuff. But, when you’re talking about like the cues that men can pick up on, how are those cues picked up on exactly? Are they just looking at specific types of communication like tone of voice and things of that nature, or is there more to it than that?

Antia Boyd:
Yeah. I mean sometimes it’s actually over time people actually create a telepathic connection. Think about it this way, you think about a person and they call you. How do you explain that right?

Chris:
Right, right.

Antia Boyd:
But we do have like, and we see it all the time in releasing a person workshops, things like that where, the guy calls afterwards, they didn’t know that you were in a-

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Chris:
Right, right, there’s no way they knew it’s just … And then yeah, I mean, we see that all the time where it’s like you know, you’ve probably seen it in your life just like I’ve seen it, where you’re thinking, or you’re watching a video about something that you hadn’t seen in a long time, and then you go out walking and all of a sudden, that’s all you can see.

Antia Boyd:
Right, right, the reticular activating system, right? Absolutely.

Chris:
So I’m curious, so this is kind of more of a philosophical question at this point but let’s say you are going through life where, you’ve just watched this movie or something that you hadn’t seen in years, and then you’re going through life, and all of a sudden you just see all these things about this movie, that you hadn’t seen in years. Is it a function of, kind of that aspect being drawn to you, or you being a little bit more aware and being able to pick up those cues?

Antia Boyd:
Yeah, that’s such a good question because a lot of women actually think, if the guy calls that means they’re meant to be, to be better, right?

Chris:
Right.

Antia Boyd:
And that’s not necessarily true. It could also be scientifically explained through what is it called? What I’m looking for? Metaphysical principles, right?

Chris:
Okay, yeah.

Antia Boyd:
And so how I see it so, I so relate to this because, I would break up with a guy sort of, I mean I was thinking my whole life, but I was always dating and you know-

Chris:
You’re married now though to a great husband.

Antia Boyd:
Yeah, husband is here, yeah.

Chris:
This woman has the answers guys.

Antia Boyd:
I have all the answers, [inaudible 00:07:33] me. And I went through a lot of pain, because I would literally drive down the street, and then I would see a street name with the name of that guy. Then I would be like, oh, Chris, it’s a sign.

Chris:
It’s meant to be.

Antia Boyd:
He’s my soulmate right? Or like, I don’t know.

Chris:
You’re preaching to the choir with my audience, because I can’t tell you how often I see stuff like that where they’re just like, “But it’s a sign, we have to be together.” But you’re saying it’s not necessarily true.

Antia Boyd:
No, it’s not true. So what I always would say is like just, you can write it down in your journal, just as a marker. There’s this really great book it’s called When God Winks on Love, and it talks about that. Like those winks that we get, but we don’t necessarily take action on them. It’s fun to look back and be like, oh, wow, all along I got sent those signs, but it doesn’t mean now get attached to something. So, I would see it as more oh, I’m on the right track, whether it’s this guy or he’s the bridge to the next guy, but how I would such a see it as more, I’m on the right track. Like I’m doing something right. Something is in the flow, I don’t know what that something is, because you don’t know if Joe is just a opener to, I don’t know, George, right?

Chris:
Correct.

Antia Boyd:
And [inaudible 00:08:46] see this guy again, or remind yourself of something, have some sort of resolution with him, and then meet the real guy that really-

Chris:
So, no, no, no, I really love your explanation, and I think, I’ve done so many coaching sessions with people to know kind of their reaction when I try to explain the principle, the Joe versus the George, it’s sort of like, well, I think a lot of times they get so hung up on trying to get their ex back, that they don’t realize maybe that one person is not the best for them in the long term. So how do you get someone to maybe open up their blinders a little bit, to seeing the world from a 30,000 foot perspective, as opposed to just taking it like one little thing at a time?

Antia Boyd:
Right, right. I love this so much. I call this the meter perspective, like, well you have the macro perspective versus the micro perspective, where you’re caught up in the weeds, right?

Chris:
Yeah, yeah.

Antia Boyd:
And so part of it is actually like seeing, okay, well, let’s say you get Frank back, but you know, you’re going to go through this pattern all the time where he doesn’t call you every week or, you don’t know where he is on Saturday night. So imagine this would go on for 10 years, would you be okay with that? Because I think when we think we want to get back with our ex, we think, we just idealize the scenario, right? But we forget to actually acknowledge well, what were all the things that I didn’t like? What were all the things that caused so much anxiety, we’re talking about attachment styles today, right? That caused so much anxiety, mistrust, insecurity inside of yourself, that really, you want to live like that for the rest of your life?

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Antia Boyd:
So actually saying yes to it, not saying no, you can’t have it, or you shouldn’t have it but actually like, great, let’s say you’re going to get it. Let’s say Frank comes back. But Frank is not going to change. Frank is going to stay the same, he may change for two weeks or three weeks, and then [inaudible 00:10:37] go back into his patterns.

Chris:
So that’s an interesting point you bring up. Because I’ve noticed that what usually happens in most … So, I’ve noticed about half of people who get back together will break up again within the first three months. And what I’ve noticed is, when you study the half of the people that kind of don’t stay together for a long term time, usually there is an immediate change at the beginning, but slowly but surely they kind of get back into their old habits that caused the relationship. But let’s say theoretically that you wanted to get Frank back, we’ll use Frank as our obligatory ex boyfriend, Frank. So, let’s say we want to get Frank back, and you succeed in getting Frank back, what would have to occur for Frank to change his ways to basically pull his weight in the relationship? Or is that even possible do you think?

Antia Boyd:
Well, so it really depends on if he chose to come back with you or if you guilt tripped him into it, which I’m sure-

Chris:
Okay, that’s a good thing.

Antia Boyd:
… About it, right?

Chris:
Yeah, yeah.

Antia Boyd:
It’s like making sure, particularly if he’s more the avoidance, so if you’re listening to this, you’re maybe more anxious side of things and just like, anticipating, checking your phone every two seconds, and Frank may be more like, I need space. I need my weekends, I need my buddies, I need my world, and so then what needs to happen for you is for one, you need to change the dynamic with you. Now how do you do that? Well for one, you have to really work on your own insecurity inside of yourself. And one thing that I talk about is, how to become secure in your insecurities. So not like fighting against it like, oh, I feel shame right now, oh my God I should like use one of those shame shields, attacking or pretending it didn’t happen.

Antia Boyd:
Or, I feel, I don’t know, somebody just said I’m selfish, oh no, no, I’m a giver and I’m generous, and just constantly going against feeling insecure versus actually really leaning into that.

Chris:
So, this is something that we actually talked about last week when we just were getting to know each other and it turned into like this three hour, hubbub back and forth where were just … It was a really great conversation, we probably should have filmed that one. But-

Antia Boyd:
Totally should have.

Chris:
… This was something that you taught me that I really hadn’t thought about before which is like, I think a lot of women and men for that matter, when they’re going through breakups, they feel a lot of guilt, shame, things like that, and they hyper focus on their insecurities or the things that they did wrong. And, I really loved your theory because I talk about a lot about this theory called the ungettable girl. So it’s like for women strive to be this ungettable girl to where you’re kind of like above men, you don’t put them on pedestals, they’re kind of equals. And, I think I just love that concept of like, kind of owning your insecurities. So, do you think you could talk a little bit more about someone who’s having a really hard time doing that?

Chris:
Because I think someone listening to this are like, oh, yeah, that sounds super cool, but when it comes to owning something that you’ve been insecure about your entire life, it’s not like we’re going to snap our fingers and it’s just going to fix. So what kind of strategies can someone have or use to own their insecurities?

Antia Boyd:
Totally. So I’ll give you an example. So I grew up in an emotionally absent household. So my mom was rather narcissistic and the core message was, don’t bother me. So the last thing that I want to be have all kinds of insecurities around like being too much, and I mean I used to, still as always like residuals. But there’s this like, don’t be too much, don’t ask for too much. And so 10 years ago, I was dating this guy and he said, “Well, you’re too affectionate. You kiss too much, you hug too much.” And so in that moment, I learned how to advocate for that. So not say, what would a normal woman do? Well a normal woman, the average woman would be like, “Oh, no, no, no. No, it’s fine, you know what I mean? I’ll give you space or you know.” Or she’ll be like? “Well, to much.”

Antia Boyd:
So you either go into attack and be like, “Who do you think you are?” Or you would go into pretending it didn’t happen, right? That’s Bernie Brown talks about that, those are shame shields. And so, but I just said, well, this is who I am. He smiled and then he felt actually his shame, because most people when they say something, they just say it because you have a charge around it. They can feel unconsciously when you don’t feel secure with something, and they will speak to that, right? So now, I was secure in that moment, and I was, I would like to call advocate, for my insecurity so to say or for my needs, and so now he was faced with his own shame, so now he backtracked.

Antia Boyd:
He actually ended up using a shame shield and said, “Oh, no, just kidding. No, it’s great, I love you, you’re awesome.” You know what I mean? And he ended up pursuing me, calling me, he was actually going on a trip and he called me every day, whatever state he was in, left me voicemails. And so, it really changed something but I always tell the women, it’s not about insecurities that you have, I don’t care if it’s an insecurity about being, wanting to be famous, or people are like, “Oh you just want to feel important. Who do you think you are?” Or if it’s around something like, being too much or, not being smart enough, or whatever it is. We all have all those different stories. But if a man sees that you just stand there and you’re, yeah that’s me, they don’t know what else that they’re going to say, right?

Antia Boyd:
It’s like they’re telling me that I have blonde hair, what am I supposed to say to that? It’s true, I have blonde hair so now what?

Chris:
It’s true, right. Well I mean, I think in this odd way, if you really think about it, we don’t look … So like we, obviously it’s hard to change external aspects like you used the blonde hair, you’re not going to change the blonde hair. But we almost look at personalities as the separate entity from ourselves, like they’re this this changeable thing and it’s not simple to change something like that. And I really love the concept because the way I look at it, the way I would frame it is like, by owning some of your insecurities you appear more confident to the other person. And sometimes supreme confidence in oneself can be blinding to the other person. So I think that’s almost like why they backtrack. They’ve never seen a human being do that before where they’re just like, yeah, yeah, I’m this way, that’s how I am.

Antia Boyd:
Yeah, yeah.

Chris:
Which I really love. Do you have any … So you work with a lot of women, obviously.

Antia Boyd:
Right, I work with thousands of single successful women, all over the world.

Chris:
Right.

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Antia Boyd:
All ages, all stages I always say.

Chris:
So I’m curious, do you have any others? Because I feel like this concept may be one the most important for my audience to grasp, which is like just owning those insecurities. Do you have any other stories from women who have done this on dates that maybe can like, sometimes I think my audience needs to see lots of different success stories to kind of really hammer how important this point is.

Antia Boyd:
Yeah, yeah. I mean, I have like one story of one client and she was told by this guy that she’s a bitch.

Chris:
Okay.

Antia Boyd:
And-

Chris:
So it’s funny my wife when I met her, we were driving, I did not call her a bitch, I want to put that out. But I said something along the lines of like, oh, you’re kind of sassy and she’s like, “No, I’m just a sweet bitch.” So I think she did one of those things without me even recognizing it until six years later.

Antia Boyd:
Well what impact did that have on you in that moment Chris? Like tell it.

Chris:
I think I just laughed because I had never seen a girl call herself a bitch before. And she was like, “No, no, I’m not a bitch, I’m a sweet bitch.” And she just kind of owned it. It was like, I didn’t know how to react to it. I don’t think I backtracked on it, I think I just started laughing and it became like this weird inside joke, but I think it was her way of just owning maybe some of the edgier parts of her personality and it worked. But, so maybe wow, you used me as the example, how dare you?

Antia Boyd:
Yeah, you actually-

Chris:
So you’ve got this client, who’s being called a bitch or she calls-

Antia Boyd:
Yeah and then she said, “Yes, I am.”

Chris:
And so what does he say to that?

Antia Boyd:
He was completely flabbergasted. He was like, he didn’t know what to say. He’s like, he was like speechless. He was like, “Are you serious?” So he was really like, you know what I mean? He did need to collect himself.

Chris:
So what’s interesting is, I mean we’re dealing with, the audience we’re talking to here is dealing with like, they’ve literally gone through breakups. And so I feel like the pushback they would have to this concept is like, “Well, what if those qualities, those insecurities about myself as the reason that he broke up with me, should I still do this?”

Antia Boyd:
I guarantee you nine out of 10 times that’s her own self perception, that’s not why. It’s because she judges herself and she actually activates that judgment then inside of himself. But if she actually were to hold her own in a relationship, men don’t leave. They don’t leave. If you hold your own in a relationship, you have your heart open, you’re the sweet bitch, I love that. I call it a queen it’s between a doormat and the bitch, right? I love the sweet bitch, that’s awesome.

Chris:
Yeah.

Antia Boyd:
You know, so you say I’m the [inaudible 00:19:56] of the bitch-

Chris:
You can feel free to use that, but you have to give him-

Antia Boyd:
I totally [crosstalk 00:20:03]

Chris:
It’s-

Antia Boyd:
Totally use that, totally. That’s so right. But like if you get to be the sweet bitch, and so you’re holding your own, but you’re still in your heart, that means it comes from a place of compassion versus resentment, men don’t leave. Why is that? Well, because it gives them access inside of their own heart. They have their own wounds from their childhood that they’re trying to protect, and you manage and navigate, and that’s what it ultimately broke out, because you hit a wall with them, you hit some sort of ceiling, some sort of threshold where are the resources? But if you’re saying, “Hey, I have the resources, I’m right here, I love all of me, how about we love all of you? How about not becoming defensive when you yell at me or be angry, but maybe we can see a world like where we can hold space for that for ourselves? How about we see that those are parts of us versus all of us and we become so over identified with it and take it so personally?”

Antia Boyd:
So that’s what I would say to that. So I would bet with you, that that’s not the real reason, it’s more about how she relates to that than-

Chris:
Yeah I mean, I totally 100% agree with you. And I think actually coming into a new relationship, or even an old relationship with this mentality, it’s kind of like, it changes the trajectory. Because, to your point it’s like, okay, when you were insecure, and you wouldn’t own those insecurities in the relationship, of course it’s going to create this sort of toxic environment where you lash out maybe. But by kind of owning it, it adds this new dynamic to where he’s forced to kind of like see, oh, wow, I didn’t know that was allowed. Because I don’t think people know it’s allowed to basically say, “Oh yeah, I’m a sweet pitcher. Or oh yeah, I’m this way or this way.”

Chris:
It feels a little like breaking the rules. But I feel like sometimes that’s how you have to add a new dynamic to your relationship. But, so I’ve noticed also, and this is something I think is really relevant to my audience, you work with a lot of women who have dated narcissists.

Antia Boyd:
Yes.

Chris:
What kind of, just outlooks or kind of insights can you give my audience, who is deeply in love with someone who’s extremely narcissistic, and maybe shouldn’t be trying to get that extremely narcissistic person back?

Antia Boyd:
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So look, you have to understand how are you a narcissist magnets, versus a narcissist repellent? which is what I, you know you put an insect repellent on right so you’re kind of a narcissist repellent.

Chris:
Yeah, get away. Do we have a spray? Is there a spray we can buy?

Antia Boyd:
We’ll have a cream you know what I mean?

Chris:
Okay, a cream yeah sorry.

Antia Boyd:
… Before you go on dates. But seriously so, narcissists go for empaths. So people are naturally more other focused, but narcissist as we know, are very self rotating, right? So they’re like parasites. So the more you focus on other people, meaning you make focusing on yourself wrong, but I just said before, if you’re like, “Well no, I’m not a bitch or no I’m not selfish,” great, great target for narcissists. Because they’re like, “Oh great. All I have to tell her, don’t be so selfish. I just have to gaslight her and then she’s just going to focus on me. You know what I mean? It’s all going to be about me. And not only that, but she has like her intrinsic self esteem is starting to break down because I make her question and doubt herself, because her self esteem comes from outside approval. So if I don’t approve of her, I can break her down, great. Now I can make a question herself, leave her family, leave her friends and just give me all her resources, all her love, all her money,” I mean I’ve heard it all.

Antia Boyd:
Writing over loans and credits and co sign things, I mean it goes pretty far what narcissists are able to accomplish with a woman that’s so other focused.

Chris:
So what would you say to a woman who has been broken up with by a narcissist and wants the narcissist back? Because I personally don’t think going back to a narcissist is probably the best thing for your sanity. What would you say to someone who would argue with my point which is like, hey, don’t do it. How would you get them to maybe redirect to a more healthy relationship?

Antia Boyd:
Yeah so, one thing that she has to understand, yes there’s a part inside of her that wants to have this guy back, and I would not fight that. Because if you want to fight that, the more protection and the more management comes up, the more she actually hardens and she’s not receptive. But if you’re like, okay, great so let’s say you get him back, we put that one over here, so I’m not saying it’s not going to happen, but let’s take the other scenario too. Let’s look at that site too. And that’s actually you becoming your own narcissist. So what I would most likely do is, I would draw out everything she’s experienced in her life, every time when she’s given her power away. How this all started in her childhood. How she tried to turn herself into a pretzel, right?

Antia Boyd:
Like how her dad was telling you, who do you think you are? So I would actually, like when we’re talking about before giving a bigger perspective, a macro perspective, that would be a good moment to do that because she’s so caught up, and a woman who wants to go back with a narcissist, which usually when my women come to me, there’s no way they want to get back with a narcissist. They want to get as far away as possible from that. But what they don’t understand is that they have to become a narcissist themselves.

Chris:
Well, so I think that there’s the correlation there would probably be because, someone who is naturally drawn to someone who’s very narcissistic, wants to be very sympathetic to others, or empathetic to others, and they don’t really think … so what I’ve found in general in relationships is, a lot of times people when they make a relationship decision, they try to make it out of self interest, but there are exceptions and I feel like these would be the exceptions. People who are kind of selfless by nature. And, we all hear the like the woman who are drawn to fixer uppers. So these are the women who are highly like, they just need a problem to fix so that they can feel good because they’re doing good, you know?

Chris:
And I think … So someone like that is basically what you’re saying is, they need to get to this point where they own that, and stop giving the narcissist power? How do they get over that mental block? I guess is my question.

Antia Boyd:
It’s really about, any resistance that you have around being selfish. So Chris if I ask you, or the women who are watching, when you think of a narcissist, what kind of woman is narcissistic? She is like, she doesn’t care, and she’s just all about herself and whatever, they would just throw some adjectives and some attributes at me, right?

Chris:
Right, right.

Antia Boyd:
Well, great you get to embrace that now. Meanness, nastiness, oh a nasty woman is a narcissist. Great, now you get to embrace the nastiness. So now you’re not only get to be a sweet bitch, but you also got to be a nasty bitch. And I’m actually super, super serious because I’ve gone through this process myself, and I have lots of women that come from very, like, nice backgrounds where nobody is saying anything and everything is brushed under the carpet, and they learn to embrace that. And just really say, we’re doing self absorption exercise, absorbing yourself. Because people use self absorption as a word as an insult. If I say, Chris, you’re so self absorbed, you would never think, thank you for the compliment.

Chris:
Yeah, right. But a narcissist would maybe.

Antia Boyd:
Yeah, a narcissist, thank you so much. No, they would gaslight, no you’re the self absorbed one because they’re projected out, but it’s really, it’s actually the opposite. So everything that charges you up, that’s what you actually like working on. So we’re having a whole self absorption party, and it’s great, and actually break down with self absorption really means, because usually it’s the other way around, it’s actually absorbing other people, not ourselves, not enough of ourselves, and that is the balance between focusing on other people and focusing on ourselves, to really create a healthy interdependence. Because what the women, the woman that wants to go back to a narcissist is in a codependent pattern and I will break it all down to her, but I’ll have her answer the questions.

Antia Boyd:
Because I’m not going to tell her anything, because she already decided she wants to go back. So what I would do is like, I would ask her questions and really, really think this through because remember, we delete, we distort and we generalize reality all day long, based on our unconscious expectations. So we got to break that down because otherwise we’re in our illusion of what that relationship is like.

Chris:
So what seems fascinating to me is, I think for the first time ever, you’re saying, I mean, I’ve never heard this before, which is really interesting, which is like, look, if you’re drawn to narcissists and you’re just like this incredible empath, and you really don’t think about yourself a lot, you need to learn to become more narcissistic. But is there … So my understanding of it would be like, okay, you don’t need to embody and become a full narcissist but you need to take some of those selfish qualities and use them on yourself, so that you can achieve the balance between being selfish, and also being kind of empathetic so that you’re not losing maybe the empath part of yourself, but you’re also looking after yourself a little bit more than you would have before. Is that an accurate way of saying? Or are you are you saying just turn full heal and just go completely narcissistic yourself?

Antia Boyd:
Yeah, go completely the other way because when somebody is so far on this side, so if I tell them to go all the way, then they maybe end up in the middle.

Chris:
In the middle, okay.

Antia Boyd:
They’re going to have so much self perceptive distortions inside of themselves, that by the time they’re like, [inaudible 00:30:03] tell me what did you do? Well, I just said something I was like, well that would be what any confident person would say, that’s not-

Chris:
Got it. So essentially, it’s almost like they don’t have a good alignment metric within themselves. So they don’t … So it’s like, for someone who’s extremely selfless, and that’s the way I view people who are probably like more narcissistic focused, they don’t really know what it’s like to be selfish. so even if you tell them to be selfish, it’s impossible for them to go so far to the other end, because they just don’t know how to do it. And, I’m assuming you came up with that concept through a bit of trial and error with real clients after telling them like hey, just go and be a narcissist yourself, and you’re just hearing like their narcissist behavior is like, basic, confident behavior that’s not narcissistic at all.

Antia Boyd:
Yeah well first of all, I have a narcissistic mom myself that means, I naturally will have a hyper masculine narcissistic distortion inside of myself. Because if we have like an extreme parent, we will have that as a distortion, but we will not know about it, because we’re hiding it from ourselves. But I was always manipulated by people, including my mom, and the minute somebody would say, “You’re so selfish.” I would like bend over backwards, guilt trip 101, and I was just sick and tired of it. It never worked for me. I was disrespected by men left and right. So I was like, I just have to … I literally came up for this myself because I said, well, I got to … When I learned about Shadow Work, I don’t know how much you’ve talked about Shadow Work with your clients-

Chris:
No, I would so we’re going to go into that.

Antia Boyd:
Yeah.

Chris:
You have to tell us about it.

Antia Boyd:
That’s actually where it all started right. So, right away, definitely give credit here, Debbie Ford, of course, she died a few years ago, but she wrote a really great book. It’s called The Dark Side of the Light Chasers and it talks about shadow work. And so shadow work essentially is looking at yourself, or looking outside of yourself actually, and see what are you judging in those other people? And so with my mom, I would always say, she’s such a narcissistic bitch. So then I was like, well, wait a minute, if I take this work on, the shadow work actually says, whatever you judge in someone else is what you have inside of yourself.

Chris:
Okay.

Antia Boyd:
Okay, take a deep breath right now ladies.

Chris:
It’s almost kind of like Freud’s ID or the super ego, or something like that where they’re-

Antia Boyd:
I think that Shadow Work actually comes from [inaudible 00:32:35] originally.

Chris:
Okay.

Antia Boyd:
Yeah, yeah exactly. And so basically then you get to say, well great, then where are my narcissist? So now I get to embrace my own inner narcissist and it’s great.

Chris:
Okay. So basically you have it in you, you just don’t think you do?

Antia Boyd:
That’s right. The reason why you’d know that is because, other people would maybe see my mom and they wouldn’t have a problem with anything. They wouldn’t be charged, they would just notice something and it’s just like you know, it’s like breathing. So they don’t have a charge in it so they don’t have that hidden inside of themselves. Maybe they’d already have it integrated or, they don’t really care about it, they are selfish in a healthy way, whatever the case may be. But when you’re charged up about something like, this cruel person, or this nasty person, this arrogant person is another one, then you get to embrace that inside of yourself.

Antia Boyd:
And so that’s a really deep journey, and this is a journey of self honesty, it’s incredibly deep, and it’s not designed for everyone. I mean this is definitely not, it’s no joke to say, wait a minute, you’re saying I suffered my whole life from narcissistic abuse, and you’re telling me I have that inside of myself? Are you freaking out of your mind? So that was like my first reaction. But then I was like, over time, I was like, I was watching dynamics and I was looking at, oh wow, in this dynamic with a friend, I’m the one who talks more. Or I’m the one who sort of anchors more into her, or take the resources, or whatever. But again, it takes this willingness to be wrong. Because the body, the system, the unconscious always wants to be right.

Antia Boyd:
So you have to be like, okay, maybe I’m doing this a little over here. Maybe I’m a little arrogant over here. Maybe I’m a little fake over here. And so essentially Chris, we have all parts inside of ourselves. But the question is, which of those parts have we hidden from ourselves, and then attract in response, in reflection in the other person? So essentially, they just remind us what we already have inside of ourselves. So essentially, it’s a really big gift, you know?

Chris:
It’s such a fascinating and an odd way of looking at it, because I don’t think anyone looks at the situation that way at all.

Antia Boyd:
Yeah.

Chris:
Well, so you were talking and you have one of the most fascinating backgrounds, period. So, I hadn’t known that about your mom before this moment, but you basically lived your life in Germany and then you came over here to the US to study at Berkeley. And you get your degree at Berkeley, and you work with hundreds of people and all that. But what I’m really fascinated by, and this is something I see in my own coaching practice, but I’m kind of curious your personal experience with it which is, it’s not enough necessarily for me sometimes to tell people what they need to do or show them what they need to do, they need to experience it for themselves to have the effect. And so you talk about your mom being narcissistic, right?

Chris:
And I’m curious, would you think she was narcissistic before you came to Berkeley and started studying? Did you have those thoughts? Or was it after you went to Berkeley kind of learned some of these concepts that it just clicked for you? Or did it take you learning the concepts but actually applying it in your own life to click for you?

Antia Boyd:
I think the biggest thing for me was learning about attachment styles. I will never forget when I opened up my textbook in my developmental psych class, and I literally, I kid you not Chris, I read this page about the anxious attachment style, and I feel like they took my life and documented it and put it in the book.

Chris:
Wow. So you’re just like seeing this and you’re immediately like, that’s me.

Antia Boyd:
That’s me. I thought the whole time there’s something wrong with me, I don’t know I have a curse on me or, literally my mom would always say, “We have curses.” My mom had divorced when I was 10 years old, and my brother wasn’t having a long term relationship, and I was struggling and so we’re all like, it’s this family curse, right? There’s like, which there’s actually something to it, it’s called family entanglement, but it’s a whole different story.

Chris:
So it’s not a curse-

Antia Boyd:
[inaudible 00:36:48] I thought there was something wrong with me, you know what I mean? Something missing.

Chris:
Okay. So you see the anxious attachment, you’re like, this is me, and then what happens after that?

Antia Boyd:
Well, after that now I actually had a framework, so now I could actually create tools for myself. So for example now I knew, yes I see myself walking down the aisle with this guy, if you see all my journal entries, I meet a guy and I say he’s my soulmate. And then like three weeks later I meet another guy and he’s my soulmate. [inaudible 00:37:18].

Chris:
How many soulmates did you meet?

Antia Boyd:
I don’t even know. I don’t know, 30.

Chris:
You found the real one though, as you can see in the picture back there, she’s married.

Antia Boyd:
Yeah so, and here’s the thing too with that, is when you heal your attachment style, my husband didn’t feel like my soulmate. He told me that the first night we met, he told me I’m the girl of his story, but I didn’t feel this like, Oh my God, he’s my soulmate, because I finally had sort of healed that attachment to that outcome and the, I call it the future anticipation, right? And I’m like, [inaudible 00:37:53] Hawaii, I don’t know what’s happened so I just learned it 10 days ago, and let’s see what unfolds for me. So being more make the unknown your friend, was what I started to do because, I was always walking my friends down the aisle, I had my little support groups, because I knew a lot of stuff. And they’re always coming to me for advice, but it was never working for me so I just said, I’m just going to go to Hawaii and I’m just going to just focus on myself, and just totally let go, let go and let God so to say.

Antia Boyd:
And 10 days later, I met my husband and it just felt natural, Chris. It just felt like breathing, I told him everything, he knew my attachment style within a few weeks. And he was accepting me, I had a breakdown, I think one month into us dating and I tried to push him away. And I could tell you stories.

Chris:
So actually the pushing away thing is interesting because I’m curious like, what is the psychology in your experience of why you pushed him away? Because I’m dealing with a male client who has a female doing that to him right now. And for me it’s kind of easy to understand how men work for me because I’m a guy but, the female mind is a little bit you know, sometimes I’m like, I need a little help. So why were you pushing your husband away? I mean this is someone you ended up marrying. So what’s the rub?

Antia Boyd:
So picture this, right, so here’s the anxious attachment style, she’s used to an avoidant attachment style, who calls her every other week? Or, is he still into me? There’s this constant questioning, there’s this constant up and down. There’s those promises, and then they’re not being capped. So there’s this hope, and then it’s a disappointment. So there’s just a lot of activation in the body. Then I meet a man who just does not that, it’s just natural, he just tells me I’m the one, he calls me, he’s not overbearing or anything, he does still do his thing. And so my system essentially was feeling like, this is a foreign body. I don’t know what this is. I can’t compare it to anything, I have no category for that. Because we were starting to be physically intimate relatively early on, and probably part of the reason why it’s because I’m like, I don’t know, it’s probably just a friend or something like that.

Antia Boyd:
Because I’m like, but then we have this physical connection too, so it’s not just a friend. So yeah, my system … And then what does the system do when it feels in the unknown, it pushes away, right?

Chris:
Right, it will try to purge it, just like get it away,

Antia Boyd:
Let’s get it out of the system, right? Like, I don’t know what to do with this, this is unfamiliar, that means I also don’t know how to behave, that all my known structures and behavioral patterns. Remember Chris, I had all those rules, which I’m sure a lot of woman are watching, you have all these rules before I get intimate with somebody and how long we need to be exclusive, and all the stuff, you had to jump through all the hoops, and you equally just cut out of my life if you call me five minutes late. And so all of a sudden, I can’t apply any rules. So then I’m like, who am I? So eventually, I went through almost like an identity crisis, because I’m like, without my rules, without my behavioral patterns, because none of that I can apply, who am I? The system’s not going to go for that. It’s going to push it. It’s going to say I can’t do this. This is weird.

Chris:
How do you overcome that in someone else? So let’s put ourselves in your husband’s shoes.

Antia Boyd:
Oh, yeah, I can-

Chris:
How did he overcome that? Because obviously you tried to purge the emotional way and like-

Antia Boyd:
I did yeah, I did.

Chris:
I don’t know what to do with this, this is like an unfamiliar street I’m on. How did he basically lure you back? Because I think that’s the quandary that many of the people here are having.

Antia Boyd:
Literally through his confidence. So I would go to this party and I would drink two bottles of champagne, now I don’t drink at all right. So-

Chris:
Me too, me too.

Antia Boyd:
You know what I mean? But I drank two bottles of champagne-

Chris:
Kind of cool the champagne. I mean like, usually people just drink beer, but no, no you went right to the champagne which is funny.

Antia Boyd:
Yeah I went to the champagne and I ignored him the whole night. He’s like “Happy Friday.” Because he was at this party and I was like, why are you here? I didn’t invite you. I’m here with my friends, it’s Hawaii, go to other places. Go sailing, go snorkeling, there’s so much to do here. But he was not coming to me, he’s not trying to convince me or anything. He was just like-

Chris:
So he’s physically around, but he’s not like … It’s like why are you here? And he’s like, oh I’m just here and he just ignores you.

Antia Boyd:
Yeah, like so I … So basically he’s like, okay, she chooses to … I don’t know what’s going on with her, let her go through the motions. Because, again as a secure, he doesn’t have to like oh my God, what’s going on? We’re in the unknown, he’s good in the unknown, because he was loved in the unknown. He knows when something … In the unknown he has hope, he has connection, love, warmth, he learned all of that as a child, because it’s a secure attachment style. So then I had to be with myself. So you don’t want to push against it, you want to give the woman a space to be with it. So then, of course at the end of the night, what did I do Chris? I texted him and I said, You know, I think I ignored you the whole night.

Antia Boyd:
I was like, I don’t even know what I’m doing. I didn’t even know where I am, I don’t know what’s happening. You know what I mean? I had a breakdown and then I broke up with him like a week later because I’m like, I don’t know, this all too much for me, my system can’t handle it. And back again, same thing.

Chris:
And he’s like, cool. Like, okay.

Antia Boyd:
Yeah he was like, went to his workshop but then I forgot my towel in his backpack and again, he’s giving me the towel back and then I just was drawn to him. Because he was not trying to convince me. I had my space to move through my emotions. And he actually said later on that he’s like, “Well, I was just like, just giving you space. I just knew you’re moving through your motions, I’m here, I know you’re the one so I know you’re going to get to it at some point.” And just this resting confidence, and there’s also this sort of like quiet unattachment right? He was just not attached and I could feel it. I could feel it. I could feel the space. And then basically my fear could, I needed space because remember, my mom’s a narcissist so I didn’t have any space at all for my own experience, right?

Antia Boyd:
So this man gives me all the space so I can feel everything and move through everything and then guess what? If you don’t have anything that pushes against us, we come out the other side. Of course we do, we’re human beings, we’re dynamic human beings so we move through our emotional cycles, and at the end we’re like, okay, still here. You know what I mean? The guy is still there, you know what I mean? Yeah I just, and I just yeah.

Chris:
So, that’s a really fascinating story because there’s a lot going on there. Were you aware of the attachment style theory when this was going on?

Antia Boyd:
No, I mean I had studied at UC Berkeley, but actually in that moment I wasn’t. Because I was so caught up in everything that was happening, and mind you I was seeing other guys and I was distracting myself and I was like, this is this foreign body, I don’t know, you know what I mean? I was actually taking for granted in a way I’m like, yeah, he’s always going to be here so whatever.

Chris:
Okay. But eventually just that quiet confidence of basically saying-

Antia Boyd:
I wasn’t aware of that. No, I was too much caught up in just seeing it more like as a friend or something, something. I don’t know what I was thinking. But just this unlabeled experience, you know what I mean? That was easy and … But yeah, I had this whole experience of, it needs to be the fireworks, and there needs to be this, all of it together, and this high level of charge and that wasn’t there. So I was like, it’s something I want but where, we’re having fun and-

Chris:
And I guess it kind of goes into what you’re saying about kind of people needing to be right. And the fact that your framework no longer applies to this one guy it’s like, it’s not right. It’s just like, okay, well, let me … I’ll do something else.

Antia Boyd:
Yes, that’s right, that’s right.

Chris:
So-

Antia Boyd:
Anything, anything, right? Like in that moment I became also irrational. Because remember, if you don’t have anything to hold, now you’re just becoming irrational because you don’t even know anything anymore. So now you become unpredictable, you do weird things, you push them away. Break up with-

Chris:
Right, right.

Antia Boyd:
… And so on, yeah.

Chris:
So one thing I would like to say about you is, not only do you have amazing YouTube channel, but you do have these really cool sounding coaching, mastermind groups that you were telling me about last time. So, first off, we’ll do the YouTube plug for you. So tell us where we can find you on YouTube since you have this awesome growing channel. So what do we type into YouTube to find you?

Antia Boyd:
Yeah, Antia Boyd, A- N- T- I- A B- O- Y- D so don’t … Like and it’s-

Chris:
Or we could do, if they type in magnetize your man.

Antia Boyd:
Your man, yeah.

Chris:
Okay. So there you go. But really what I would like to hear you tell more my audience about, are these really amazing mastermind … Because that’s how I viewed it. I don’t know if that’s how you kind of pitch it, but I viewed it like these mastermind groups, and they’re like high level mastermind groups with like 12 women, right? How many women per call?

Antia Boyd:
Yeah, it’s between 12 and 20 women, somewhere around there.

Chris:
So tell us how those work exactly. How long are the calls? Are they weekly? Are they monthly? Just give us the-

Antia Boyd:
Right. Yeah, no I mean, it’s like the longer program, it’s a six month long program and it takes you through the three stages.? So it goes to the mapping stage, then it goes into the magnification stage, which is where all the fear is coming up like, I don’t want to be narcissist, I don’t want to be too big, too bright, too bold, any of that, so breaking through all the stories that you have. That’s where the Shadow Work comes in mostly, is the magnification stage. And then the manifestation stage, that’s actually we’re looking at how are you sabotaging relationships? Where can you literally not receive relationships because Chris you probably see that with your women they are also sabotage it too, where they’re like, “Oh, he didn’t give me this and I passive aggressively just hang up on him.”

Chris:
My favorite sabotage story ever was, there was a girl who we were helping to try to get her ex back, and she was having really a lot of success. She had a lot going for her. And she had gotten the guy and he’s sitting next to her on the couch and he goes, “Do you ever think about getting back together?” And she didn’t know what to do? So she she starts texting us to like, “What do I say?” With him on the couch right there. We’re just like-

Antia Boyd:
[inaudible 00:48:40], yeah.

Chris:
So, yeah that’s probably the best sabotage story. And obviously they did not get back together. I think she got into an argument with him or something.

Antia Boyd:
Because she texted you guys? She was like, okay.

Chris:
No, I think we didn’t see the text message or the Facebook message, I can’t remember it was just a couple years ago, until hours after this had occurred. And so, because she didn’t know what to do, she just started panicking and I think just, like you said, purged that away. She didn’t know how to handle it. Because, I think that taught us that sometimes we can’t coddle people, I think we were coddling her too much. We were giving her too much like, do this, do this, do this, too many steps. And ultimately, she didn’t think for herself and so we’ve tried to pull back on doing that for people and, that’s worked for the most part. But yeah, that’s my favorite sabotage story.

Antia Boyd:
You know what probably also happened with her is like, so usually when women don’t want to be too forthright, so he’s already like, “Hey, do you ever think of getting back together?” And she probably wants to say yes with all the fiber of her being but-

Chris:
Right. Well so-

Antia Boyd:
… She was afraid to be needy.

Chris:
No, no, no you’re absolutely right. So what was really interesting about her is, she was one of the worst insecure attachments I had ever seen. I mean, it was like, I have never seen any person this insecure. So we were constantly explaining to her, and I didn’t know the best way to maybe tell someone that, but we were being very blunt with her and saying, look, this is the type of behavior that’s pushing him away. And so I think the fact that we made her aware of that, kind of messed with her a little bit where she had those thoughts you’re talking about. Where she’s like, well, I’m afraid to seem over eager. And so she just kind of just done doesn’t know what to do.

Antia Boyd:
Yeah, so that’s like an anxious avoidant, right. So they actually have the anxiety underneath, and that’s what we’re dressing in that last stage, is actually what we always forgetting is when we sabotage, we’re going actually into avoidance, of course we do, that’s how you sabotage. You know what I mean? You’re like not communicating-

Chris:
And so she got into an argument and obviously they kind of split up, and then of course she wants him back even more than-

Antia Boyd:
Yeah, yeah.

Chris:
So it’s kind of this interesting back and forth dynamic and yeah. But that’s by far my favorite sabotage story.

Antia Boyd:
Yeah, that’s wow, I love that she really texted you and added to this instant WhatsApp access is all that right? But, sometimes you sleep or, you know what I mean? Something happens.

Chris:
I can’t be around forever, my wife was helping her too, so she can’t be around forever. So it just is what it is sometimes. But I-

Antia Boyd:
But [inaudible 00:51:22] it’s really about sharing right? Like this authenticity, I did this with my husband too. I was telling him, hey, part of me wanted too manipulate you, that was like six months of us dating, right? And he’s like, “Really? How did you want to do that?” And so in doubt I would always say, share to overcome that avoidance. And we talk about that in the sabotage stage, how to actually create more authenticity, and more transparency in that stage, because you’re not going to survive in any other way because otherwise-

Chris:
So the these are all stages that you talk about, and essentially these huge mastermind calls between 12 and 21 women. So, how long … So the calls are weekly, correct? If I’m remembering correct. And how long is the average call?

Antia Boyd:
Oh, I mean, the group calls, they’re like two hours because-

Chris:
Two hours.

Antia Boyd:
… You see me getting-

Chris:
So also-

Antia Boyd:
… You know.

Chris:
Would you also say there’s a really cool benefit to the fact that there’s other women who also hear your situation, and are able to give advice as well on top of the advice you can give?

Antia Boyd:
All the time. As a matter of fact, sometimes I come in and it’s like all the questions I answered, because they’re like, “Oh, so and so already answered this for me or, I totally relate to her. Yeah, a lot of women have breakthroughs because, think about it, when you hear somebody else’s story, your defense mechanisms are down because you’re, well it’s not about me. So you’re going to be even more listening even more carefully, right?

Chris:
It seems like a fantastic way, and something I feel like I should start doing for my own audience. But it seems like a fantastic way because one thing I’ve noticed in our private Facebook group is that, a lot of that happens. And it’s cool because, you’re hyper picking these women who can get really close and kind of bond, and I’m sure you’ve had friendships happen over these-

Antia Boyd:
Business partnerships. I mean, books written together, authored books together, I mean just incredible. And that’s why I said like, now we really call it like a sister of mine because it’s like, really I’m an incredible friendship lifelong business partnership, soul sister ship I will almost say.

Chris:
So let’s say someone listening to this podcast episode, or watching this YouTube video is interested in signing up for one of these, where do they have to go to sign up?

Antia Boyd:
Yeah. So you go to magnetizeyourman.com, and so take the quiz there so we kind of know where you’re at and what’s going on.

Chris:
So if you don’t know where to go it’s magnetizeyourman.com, which again, I’m going to reiterate, one of the coolest names ever for a business. And like me, she has a free quiz. And so what is your free quiz do exactly?

Antia Boyd:
Yeah. Well, it just really shows you what’s actually going on, where you’re stuck, what are your blind spots? Where are the distortions? So it tells me a lot, there’s a lot going on and I’m also … Yeah, there’s a lot of different levels that I look at.

Chris:
Okay. So it’s basically giving you an assessment, I guess, is a good way of putting it of-

Antia Boyd:
Yeah, yeah. It’s an assessment, really seeing where you not feel supported? Where you not feel cherished, where you’re distorted to what’s your hyper masculine versus your hyper feminine? And it’s like yeah. And then they also get free, personalized gifts with that as well in response to that.

Chris:
Okay. So you’re getting all those goodies plus the assessment. And then from there does it lead you to kind of like say, hey, we think this is probably the best type of phone call mastermind, sisterhood, mind hive. You came up with a really cool name for it, I forgot, I’m blanking. What was it sister?

Antia Boyd:
Sister mind, yeah.

Chris:
Sister mind, got it. And so that’s basically-

Antia Boyd:
[inaudible 00:54:55] bring in a little bit more femininity. You know women are so masculine and-

Chris:
So, are men allowed in these calls?

Antia Boyd:
No.

Chris:
Okay so it’s an all girls thing, ladies. So you’re not going to see me in there but, what about someone who’s part of the LGBTQ community? Are they allowed in there?

Antia Boyd:
Yeah, I mean, we have like one woman just joined, yeah. I mean, I just never had them come to me, but yeah, we definitely talk about it.

Chris:
Okay. Okay so basically if you want to get access to this really, and like I said, I feel like it’s really helpful just to have these group of individuals who knows each other’s situations like the backside of their hand, and then every week, they’re just digging deep and trying to improve. And so if you want these calls, or if you want access to this resource, all you have to do is go to our website, magnetizeyourman.com, take the free quiz, and then you’ll be directed from there to whatever fits your situation. So, again, thank you so much for coming on, this was one of the most mind blowing episodes because I feel like I learned so much. Especially about the owning the insecurity thing, I’m going to totally tell some of my clients to do that and see what happens.

Antia Boyd:
They’ll be like, what?

Chris:
Yeah, right.

Antia Boyd:
How do I do that? Yeah, totally, totally. But it really takes those unconventional methods to create unconventional results. I mean, you won’t have results, but you have a very high likelihood to get the guy back. Well, you got to do something unconventional, you got to [inaudible 00:56:32] for the chase, right?

Chris:
Yep. So thank you so much for coming on.

Antia Boyd:
Thank you so much for having me Chris.