This is a doozy of a success story that I have for you today. I had the honor of interviewing Rachel who not only got her ex back but ended up getting married to the man of her dreams in the process.

So, if you’ve ever dealt with a breakup that had any of the following elements,

• An ex who is a fearful avoidant
• An ex who left you when you were pregnant
• An ex who moved on to someone new only to come back

Then this is definitely the success story you should watch/listen to.

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How Rachel Got Her Ex Back, Denied Him, And Then Married The Man Of Her Dreams

Chris Seiter 0:00
All right, today we’re gonna be talking to a really interesting success story. Her name is Rachel. She’s a member of the ERP Facebook group. And she’s got quite the tale to tell. How are you doing, Rachel?

Rachel 0:12
I am doing good. How are you?

Chris Seiter 0:15
Hanging in there? So let’s go back to the beginning and relive some of this depressing stuff. Oh, joy.

Rachel 0:22
Oh, yes. Okay.

Chris Seiter 0:23
Right. So yeah, take us to the beginning and talk us through sort of your unique situation because it has a really cool ending.

Rachel 0:33
Alright, so do you mean the beginning of the breakups the beginning beginning of the relationship?

Chris Seiter 0:39
Yeah, let’s go to the breakup. Just just let’s get to the goods. Let’s let’s get right down to it.

Rachel 0:48
Um, so the beginning. So he is an ex fiance of mine. And so I have to tell a little bit of the pre breakup story. Okay.

Chris Seiter 0:59
Yeah, let’s just give us like a quick crash course primer into into him.

Rachel 1:03
Yeah. Okay. So basically him and I met fell in love super fast. And basically, we got pregnant the first time plan to get married and we let that pregnancy happen. Okay, so we were all in he was super excited, unfortunately, had a miscarriage. He was devastated. I of course, was devastated. So that’s a really hard thing for relationship. And then he ended up calling off the wedding. So um,

Chris Seiter 1:34
so did he do this? He did this after the miscarriage.

Rachel 1:37
He called off the wedding after the miscarriage. Yes. It’s like just

Chris Seiter 1:41
rubbing salt into the wound, you know? Yeah.

Rachel 1:44
Yeah. Um, you know, looking back, that was several years ago. Now, looking back. We don’t know why we made the choices we do sometimes. Like, if I could talk to myself, I’d be like, Why are you giving this guy the time of day, but sometimes you don’t want your reality to be your reality. Right? So we’ll do anything to not have that be your reality. And so that wasn’t the end of the story for us. And that was also not what brought me to your program. Um, we basically stayed quote unquote, together but not together since now commitment was even scarier. And then towards the end of that year I we had been long distance to so I always told them I would never do more than a year long distance. And I don’t like cold weather. So I moved wanted to move to warmer place regardless, so I knew knowing not,

Chris Seiter 2:37
yeah, other songs.

Rachel 2:41
Even now, I’m like, Oh, this 50 degree winters too cold.

Chris Seiter 2:45
Yeah, exactly. You got to like go to Hawaii or something to get to get rid of those winters. Exactly, exactly.

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Rachel 2:53
Just gonna keep going further. So so basically moved down here, um, knowing it wasn’t like a surefire shot with the sky. But I also knew that I wanted to know, for better or for worse, to use that term, right? If this was not going to work, I wanted to be sure that I wasn’t that I was gonna let it go. And if it was gonna work, I wanted to give it that shot. So that was the other part of my decision to move. It wasn’t like, let’s move together. I moved to the same area, and we did get back together. And eventually I was like, why are we not engaged again and again, still before I found your fee, and then eventually I was like, Don’t come back unless you have a ring I’m done for a variety of reasons.

Chris Seiter 3:36
The ultimatum you know.

Rachel 3:40
And that was for again, a variety reasons why and take up too much time on the backstory.

Chris Seiter 3:46
I gotta say, I’m with you so far here, you know, yeah, you moved. It’s like you should do something.

Rachel 3:53
Yeah, we weren’t even living together. But so yeah, so basically, a he was not a fan no man is a fan of an ultimatum Right? Any woman that’s considering it highly recommend you do not do it? Even if it’s for the moment not thought out? Like my case. Don’t say it if you’re angry. You can’t say it. You nodding your head over there. Nodding

Chris Seiter 4:18
just like yeah. Music to my ears.

Rachel 4:24
So that was just before the holidays. And you know, typically, you know, I’ve had a bunch of axes in the past almost every single one I’ve gotten back. Um, I am. Yeah, I like organically been the No Contact Rule person because I was just like, No, this guy doesn’t want me well then. Screw him. Like, I’m gonna make him see what it’s like not have your own.

Chris Seiter 4:48
Beautiful, love it.

Rachel 4:51
Yeah, and also I don’t want to reach out and then be rejected. So it’s ungettable but it’s also fear based. Okay,

Chris Seiter 4:57
so don’t talk about that part.

Rachel 5:01
Okay, so um, so basically go through the holidays, which typically, if exes are looking for an excuse to reach out, that’s a big one where it’s like, oh, Merry Christmas, like, how have you been, you know, nothing silence and then mid January, I hear from Him and He wants to meet up. And we have like a three hour long conversation and all of a sudden, like, he can’t picture his life without me and we can elope because one of our arguments was I didn’t want a big fancy wedding, I want it to elope and we can go to the courthouse the next day and yada yada and all this stuff. And all right. And that same night despite precautions our daughters can see. Okay, yeah. Here’s a really, okay, we’re not done yet. It gets better. So we’re could supposedly back together, right? And then he hasn’t talked to me for three or four days. Of course, I find out two weeks later, I’m pregnant. And when I did talk to him, he was like, he was like, Well, I don’t think we should jump back into things. And I was like,

Chris Seiter 6:05
What are you talking about? Docked me up, dude.

Rachel 6:09
Well, he doesn’t know that yet. Because we found that about a week later. But don’t tell me you want to get married and all this stuff and then disappear off into the great wide world somewhere.

Chris Seiter 6:19
I’m mad for you. Um,

Rachel 6:24
so okay, we’re still probably around 11 months away from the ERP breakup, right? So basically, I get pregnant. It’s a bumpy, bumpy pregnancy. He doesn’t. Here’s one thing he doesn’t believe the baby is his because we were broken up for that time, right in between when he came back.

Chris Seiter 6:40
Did he make you take a test or something?

Rachel 6:43
Oh, wait until they tell you. Yes, yes, you did after she was born.

Chris Seiter 6:49
So cringy, you know,

Rachel 6:51
there was no possible way that this was anybody else’s baby. Like I literally said to him, I was like, if it’s not your baby, then Jesus says, Come again. And you need to like

Chris Seiter 7:01
through the Virgin Mary.

Rachel 7:05
So um, anyways, so yeah, we broke up like once or twice during the pregnancy, like, obviously, pregnancy hormones. I can’t go out with him and have drinks anymore. I can’t do a lot of the fun things because pregnant women can’t do a lot of stuff if they want to take care of their child. So there was all types of reasons that we weren’t getting along wonderfully. He also was not very supportive of the pregnancy. He traveled a lot for work at that point. And then so she comes along, and we’re getting to the breakup. But to answer your question, she comes along, and two months after she’s born, so we were not officially living together, but somewhat living together after she was born. One day, he basically says, I don’t think this is going that well. I don’t think we should live together, you need to move out. So me and our two month old baby. Um, I’m on maternity leave from work. And I’m like, Well, I’m not staying 1000 miles away from my family when the father of my child slash ex fiance tells me he doesn’t think we can live together but we can still hang out, which was his word. So you don’t know. It doesn’t really see. So I’m going to go back to my home state for the holidays. Which he was an angry about. And, but then again, I never wanted. I don’t think any woman is like, I really hope when I grew up, I am a single mom.

Chris Seiter 8:27
Yeah. Exactly. Yeah.

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Rachel 8:30
And so it was at that point that I started looking for. How to get things back together. In your pro cam, that’s not the first time in my life. I’ve been like, Googling how to do whatever, like do I text him first? All that stuff. Right, right. But it was the first time that I came across your program. And what I really liked about it was it applied different theories. It had elements of programs I had looked at and been in before, but it also had some stuff I hadn’t done before. So that’s about the time that I found you guys and jumped in and then I also did coaching with Anna to

Chris Seiter 9:16
definitely helps. And is great, isn’t she? He

Rachel 9:21
is wonderful. They like in our first call, like she’s hearing the story and of course it’s different when at that point I think

Chris Seiter 9:29
probably like she’s probably like gathering the war. You know, like the war party behind her to go like raid this guy’s house or something for how he treated you.

Rachel 9:38
She literally like she was very reserved, but she said to me, are you sure you want this guy back? Like obviously trying not to be like, What the heck are you doing? But she’s probably laughing if and when she listens to this and hears that but um yeah, he supported what I wanted, and gave me the game plan. In, which wasn’t very different than the game plan in your book, it was basically the same except additional coaching on how to do

Chris Seiter 10:08
books like recommended reading. She usually sends those those really long homework things out with those books.

Rachel 10:15
Yeah, I was a bad student.

Chris Seiter 10:17
Oh, shame on you, Rachel.

Rachel 10:20
No, I know I was a bad student. But I mean, being a single mom working full time, like there’s not a lot of time to read books.

Chris Seiter 10:28
Yeah, so you got the two month old three month old screaming every day. You’re running on three, four hours of sleep every night? Yeah, I get it.

Rachel 10:36
Yeah. Yeah. So I like I was listening to the podcast version and to reading. I keep rereading, and then I had battle buddies with your group, and stuff like that. So yeah, so ultimately, what happened is, I followed the program. Of course, they didn’t do it perfectly. I think it’s really hard to do that it did lose EC or emotional control a time or three and have to restart. Um, but he came back about 15 months later after the breakup.

Chris Seiter 11:10
I know, I’m old is your daughter at this point?

Rachel 11:14
Um, she would have been? No, she was 15 months old. So it must have been 17 months after the breakup. Okay. So I’m thinking Wait, it was February. Yeah. So she must have been 1414 folder. So

Chris Seiter 11:31
you had moved back to your home state? Correct. At that point.

Rachel 11:35
I did not move back. I only went back there for maternity leave. Okay, I

Chris Seiter 11:39
ended up so it kind of came back to where he was.

Rachel 11:43
Yeah, because one cost of living was better. I have to give her myself,

Chris Seiter 11:50
too. You want to play together?

Rachel 11:54
On my family together? But even if it didn’t, she need I don’t want to be I didn’t want to be that stereotypical baby mama that everyone hates who like who she was? Let me see my child, you know, like? So? Yeah, for a variety reasons. I did move back here. And how often

Chris Seiter 12:11
How often would you like you mentioned throughout this process, you would lose emotional control? Would that happen when you would like have to, he would like come around to see her.

Rachel 12:24
So when I first was back here, it was very confusing. Because he started he was super nice to me, he would be like, Let’s do family dinners on Sundays. And like all this stuff that literally felt like a family

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Chris Seiter 12:38
show. avoidant to me.

Rachel 12:42
Yeah, that’s what the coach said to, um, and so, you know, and hold back as much as I could. And then I’d be like, Well, what’s going on? Why can’t we like, try this? Why can’t we be a family? So probably my mistake there was just not holding back enough to make to force it out of him. Yeah. But there’d be you know, so that was the loss of emotional control. I think there was one night that he had her that I allowed myself too much wine and decided nothing else was working. So I was gonna call him and tell him how I felt, which is obviously exactly what you don’t want to do.

Chris Seiter 13:23
That doesn’t really work. Yeah.

Rachel 13:28
So yeah, so basically, you know, eventually I got to the point, I couldn’t do it. 100%. organically, I’ll be very clear about that. I couldn’t pretend like I didn’t care, especially like, the family aspect to seeing him weekly or more, because we share a very young child. I did not know what was actually going on in the background at that time, which is there was another woman in the picture, surprise, surprise, which he very carefully hid for me in every sense of the word. And

Chris Seiter 13:59
do you know how far back that went?

Rachel 14:02
So

Chris Seiter 14:04
God is we’re opening up these horrible, it’s like, I’m ripping open scabs here. Something I mean, but I feel like it’s important to touch on because I create some insight into the breakup.

Rachel 14:16
He, so they had actually met in college. And

Chris Seiter 14:22
what’s his ex?

Rachel 14:24
No, no, I didn’t date in college.

Chris Seiter 14:27
All right. They got away.

Rachel 14:30
Potentially. Yeah. And so she, she was actually married. So he at one point, him and I were talking about relocating together and she was married and lived in that same state. And while I was pregnant, one day, we’re out and his Snapchat kept blowing up and I was like, Who’s her name? I’m gonna leave it out. Right? Right, right. It’s like, oh, that’s my friend from college. She’s married. She lives in the same state. We’re talking about moving to and I was like, Oh, that’s so great. Like, you know, we’ll have friends when we go out there. Turns out, you’re, you’re so

Chris Seiter 15:02
kind See, see, my wife would not be that way. She’d be like, Why are you talking to someone who’s married? And you’re moving to the same state? So it’s not like it’s such a kind hearted person, Rachel is all I’m saying, you know, this glass half full? Yeah, I look at it, I look at it like it is. In this case, it was a disadvantage, but in most cases, it’s an advantage.

Rachel 15:31
So I did ask him that question. And he was like, Well, you know, obviously, things haven’t been perfect. But that’s during this pregnancy. And I was kind of asking her because she’s married, like, is it supposed to be this difficult and getting her insight on that? And I was like, well, has she ever been pregnant? He said, No. And then I was like, well, then how would she know? And he was like, I don’t know. And I was like, Okay, well, you should be talking to me about this, not her. Because I didn’t want to open a whole can of worms. But to me, that’s emotional cheating. And it leads to the destruction of relationships, um,

Chris Seiter 16:00
is, it’s like a gateway drug. That’s what it’s like.

Rachel 16:04
Yeah. And so they were at least talking when I was pregnant at some point, but she must have been, he must have told a half truth and that she was actually getting separated. Because that was when I was about six months pregnant. And when probably two months come to find out much later, which we’ll get to that when we get the success part. And then what I found out really happened. So probably about two months after him, and I split up, they were suddenly dating.

Chris Seiter 16:33
He’s got a child, oh, my God.

Rachel 16:37
And I’m like, I’m sorry. I’m sorry. I’m gonna so he,

Chris Seiter 16:39
he basically broke up a marriage is what you’re saying.

Rachel 16:43
So either he broke up a marriage, or she’s a homemaker, and he broke my marriage. So they just give them

Chris Seiter 16:49
both some credit for that, that, you know, I think there’s enough blame to go around for both of them.

Rachel 16:55
Yeah, so, you know, that’s why I was a little nervous on this interview. So it’s like, there’s some feelings that might come out?

Chris Seiter 17:03
Yeah, well, you know, you know, we’ll just stay away from that then.

Rachel 17:09
So, um, but I did not know about that for the entire thing. Until, so what happened is, I were saying, I lost emotional control a few times. And then I basically got to the point where I was like, this is not working, I have to completely let this go. Like not even counting down days of no contact, I was not the type of person who wanted to start those text conversations to get them engaged. I tried it here and there. And if he would always react positively, but I knew that he would like, that wouldn’t have been a new thing for us, like we get along. I was like, that’s not gonna make a difference. Like we can be best buddies on text, and it’s not gonna make a difference, you know, at least not in my situation. So I was like, I have to completely let this go. I have to really, really like not because you told me to, not because ERP tells me to, but I really, really focus on myself and like, full force, throw myself into doing all the things that ERP says, like, find new, like COVID related activities that I’m going to make my hobby, and like, do something that builds up my confidence. Now,

Chris Seiter 18:20
how long did it take you to get to that? That place?

Rachel 18:25
I think I probably got to day what? I forgot what the prescribed days is for that.

Chris Seiter 18:34
Sure. So what I’m asking is, like, when the breakup happened, and when you started trying to like, get get him back? How long did it take you before you had that mindset shift to where you’re religious? Like, you know what, I think I’m going to let him go.

Rachel 18:49
Um, it probably was early that summer, so I would say it was four or five months.

Chris Seiter 18:58
So it took a little while of you try really hard to get him back and then just getting frustrated. I mean, like, Okay, I’m gonna start focusing on myself. And I’m guessing that’s when the real results started happening.

Rachel 19:09
Yeah, so it wasn’t, it was that quick. So what I did is I, I like threw myself into like, home improvement projects, like started playing with power tools, like, like badass like, I have,

Chris Seiter 19:24
like building like, a baby’s room or something. Right? Like that.

Rachel 19:29
Like architectural stuff in my house. Yeah. Like I was like, that’s big. Chip and Joanna Jane.

Chris Seiter 19:35
Oh, yeah. You know, a fixer upper. Yeah, yeah.

Rachel 19:39
So I did that. Um, I started my own business in addition to working full time because I’m crazy, apparently, you know, um, but yeah, basically, I was like fully focusing on myself and getting back to myself and I as much as it like, was puke worthy to myself. I did go back online dating, email. That’s not what I want. it in my heart, but I was like,

Chris Seiter 20:03
it’s yeah, how often I hear that and how often that ends up being like that secret weapon for some reason. It’s just uncanny. Like, I did a successful interview yesterday with a woman. And she just, like half the time was talking about how exactly like you, she was like, I don’t want to go online dating, but I did it. And then it just like created this like momentum with all these men that started liking her posts and everything. So I’m actually really curious to see how this plays out. Sorry.

Rachel 20:34
No, that’s fine. So I was like, very. So as a single mom with no family in the area, it’s not one of the challenges for me dating was that one, my daughter is so young and so cute. And I don’t want to pay a sitter to go spend time with some random dude who might not be around. Right. So I was very, very, like, life situation. ungettable because anyone who wanted to spend time with me, I was very strict with the time that I give them. So basically, the guy that I first went out with is actually my now husband, just so you know.

Chris Seiter 21:10
So the all my daddy thing kind of worked out for you that

Rachel 21:13
Yeah. Cuz I wasn’t like the first guy that you go out with. It’s not the guy. Right? This is, you know, I thought he was except

Chris Seiter 21:21
in your case. Except. So, um, you probably really, he probably was like really wanting to work to see you. You know, like, it adds this really interesting element with the with the child. And it’s kind of like you well, you can’t just like leave her to go on a date. Right? So and what does he have to do?

Rachel 21:43
And her dad would cancel times that he was supposed to have with her. So we’d have a date set up. And I’d be like, sorry, her dad canceled. I can’t go. And he even asked me after we got married. How many times do I actually know?

Chris Seiter 21:56
Yeah, the guys just be in it. You know what? Yeah.

Rachel 22:00
And so I’d see him maybe like twice a month and we ended up him and I end up dating for about six months. In the meantime, of course, like, I’m still talking to my battle buddies, who one of which I still talk to weekly. And she did get back with her. She has a son who’s the same age as my age is my daughter she did did get back. So she’s like a current success story too. And they’re living. Yeah, that’s it. Okay, she want to just

Chris Seiter 22:24
making sure I did hear things in the background there. Yeah, he was

Rachel 22:29
trying to come over to the window, and I pushed her away and she got mad. So, um, but, so I still talk to her weekly. So definitely love battle buddy as part of this. And, um, so where were we in the story? Okay,

Chris Seiter 22:44
basically, yeah, go ahead.

Rachel 22:46
I had started casually, super casually dating this guy. And I was very strict with him. I made it very clear, I was honest. I was like, Look, I’m not like, emotionally ready for anything. So this is going to be extremely slow, if it’s going to be anything and if you’re not okay with that, that’s fine. Like, I just I didn’t care, you know. Um, and he rolled with it like, and until for about six months. And in the meantime, I’m still like, trying to entice my ERP ex, right. And I guess the energy shift that we’re kind of talking around, it happens when you open up your energy to other men, um, did attracting back because basically what happened slowly over time is my daughter’s father started suddenly bringing over dinners for us because he knew that I didn’t have time to cook much. And that became more and more frequent. And then it became do want to come over for dinner. And then it became eventually him opening up and then we got back together. So I did get my my ERP ex back.

Chris Seiter 23:57
Okay, no, she’s gonna drop here again. So let’s get to it.

Rachel 24:02
So, um, at first, it was like, absolutely fabulous. honeymoon period. Yep. Yeah, yeah. And so this is where I think there has to feel it doesn’t have to feel good to like, get your family back. You

Chris Seiter 24:15
know? Yeah. Yeah. But there’s, there’s there’s still secret. There’s still a sword of Damocles hanging over the head here. So,

Rachel 24:23
yeah, there was a lot. I think. There was a lot of come to Jesus conversations that basically he had to have with me, and part of me thinks looking back now, did he come back because he carried so much guilt, that he was trying to allay that guilt from himself and he didn’t actually want to get back together. Because what happened over the next like, six, eight weeks, however long it was, we were back together. As he started, tell me about this other woman about the fact that she relocated here about the fact that she was living with him which he never wanted to do. Give me so that like was a gut punch about the fact that she lived with him when our daughter was staying over there, like so all of these things were back together, I have what I’ve worked so hard for, right. And I was sitting in the moment and thank God for all the emotional control training that I had through ERP, right? I became like a superstar that so like, I was all like, I’m all like gung ho emotional control is the key to success in relationships, if you are emotional, female. Um, but I had the decision every time he was telling me that’s like, I don’t like hearing this. This sucks. I want to vomit. But it’s in the past. And I have what I want now. Do I let it go to potentially give my daughter and myself the type of life that I was fighting for for so long? And at the time? My answer was, yes, I’m letting all this go. And I think, you know, this could probably be a debate psychologically, that he was not expecting me to forgive everything. Right?

Chris Seiter 26:00
Yeah. I wouldn’t. So

Rachel 26:03
yeah, and so I think part of him was like, she’s gonna find this out. She’s not gonna want to be with me. So maybe he was never all in? I don’t know.

Chris Seiter 26:10
Oh, so you’re thinking like he had the conversation because he knew, which would be that’s kind of a common fearful avoidance tactic of like being half in half out. So you’re thinking like, he might have potentially had this conversation with you with these come to Jesus moments, so that you would break up with him.

Rachel 26:29
Either that, or he knew that if we were going to go forward that he had to be truthful, but he didn’t really believe that it would go forward. So

Chris Seiter 26:38
it’s a bit of both human beings. Did you know?

Rachel 26:41
Well, and it gets worse to if you if you can, oh, I can

Chris Seiter 26:45
unfortunately, but it’s just it makes me feel so bad for you. But I’m, you have the good ending. So that’s sort of the wind tunnel. So this is

Rachel 26:55
going to be literally the wild card of this entire conversation. Are you ready for

Chris Seiter 27:00
it? Okay, let me let me let me get ready. Okay, I’m ready. Yeah. Like,

Rachel 27:03
like, sit back. Okay. All right. So this is gonna be the pincher the entire conversation. So basically, everything I went through, obviously, I was not the no sex before marriage type. Even though I do identify as Christian, like, I had a daughter out of one. Um, and I had always approached my adult life that way, cuz, you know, like most women, I’m a fan of sex, too. But everything that happened with my daughter’s father, and I like it hurt me so much emotionally, and also just my dreams for my life way before him, that I was like, it’s not worth it. Like, as much as I love that one. There’s some fantastic toys out there that do way better. To like, if I’m going to give that part of myself, someone, I need to know that they’re going to stick around and I don’t want to be attached to someone, especially now that I have a daughter that isn’t gonna stick around. Like they need to be like ride or die if they’re gonna get that part of me, right. So I basically had decided that for myself, and this was after her father and I broke up. So I did with him, because obviously, we already had a daughter, but with all of the other men that I had gone on dates with as the result of the online dating, like that was never a part of the equation. Okay, um, so, but the part where it gets worse. So first of all, keep that in mind. Okay, the part where it gets worse is, so when him and I were intimate again, I had not been intimate with anyone since before she was born. So at that point, that’s like a year and a half or however long that’s a really long time. And nobody else besides him. And I find out because we hadn’t like committed to each other that time. But oh, I

Chris Seiter 28:54
think I know where this going. Yeah,

Rachel 28:57
other women had never been a thing. I find out that the very next night, he was when the homewrecker

Chris Seiter 29:06
so you, you’ve technically been together, right? You’d like when you when you become intimate here, you’re technically back together, right?

Rachel 29:14
Well, we didn’t verbalize that. So it was like so

Chris Seiter 29:17
for you. It was just like this assumed thing where you’re a little afraid to to, to, like know that with him.

Rachel 29:25
Not even because I even we talked about it. And I was like, This doesn’t have to be a big deal. Like I said that I was like it doesn’t because we both didn’t want to rush back into it. We didn’t want it to fizzle out, like be fastened and fizzle out. And I was like, Well, honestly, I was like, I really want to do this because I did that a while. I know. It’s like, it doesn’t have to mean that we’re back together this second. But prior to us having a child together. We were together for several years other women had never been a thing. To my knowledge, I guess at this point. Maybe they had who knows But so I didn’t have that fear with him or that concern. So there was no way in my mind, I thought when I said that, well, he’s gonna go sleep with another woman the very next day, but he did. He got really drunk and it didn’t mean anything, quote, unquote.

Chris Seiter 30:14
Okay. It did it. Did he literally tell this to you?

Rachel 30:19
He did. He did. He told me

Chris Seiter 30:22
how long after that event with the other woman. Did he tell you?

Rachel 30:27
So this is before this is right. But that’s actually what got us back together. Because I said to him, I was like, Look, that was a very big deal for me to sleep with. You haven’t been with anybody else. I was like, and to know that it’s so casual to you, regardless if you’re blackout drunk or not. You know, I was like, I don’t know how I’m going to trust you. Like the fact that I was nowhere in your mind when this happened. And he was like, well, in my mind, you know, we weren’t committed to

Chris Seiter 30:56
each other. Yeah, I get it. Yeah.

Rachel 31:00
So he offered commitment at that point. And that’s when we got back together.

Chris Seiter 31:06
So you get back together eventually, things don’t go well. So

Rachel 31:18
no, boy okay. That’s true story. Right.

Chris Seiter 31:21
It’s it’s almost like self sabotaging. If like I’m just looking at it from afar here. It’s almost like self sabotaging a purpose. Like, your comment before about like, you know, him telling you and being quote unquote, honest here is also a little bit of like, self sabotage. So maybe some part of him didn’t want to be it, like died down.

Rachel 31:45
i Yeah. I mean, yeah. Okay. So that’s why one of the things were looking back, I decided maybe it was all driven by guilt and wanting to lay his own guilt. Right. for that.

Chris Seiter 31:59
I don’t think fully, I think like just looking at, I think it’s like a combination of both. I think guilt definitely plays in like, it’s like, he’s the bad guy. There’s just no way you can slice it away, like you, you leave a woman, right, as she’s pregnant. She’s a single mom, you are shacked up with this other you know, it’s like, there’s just, however you slice it, it’s not good. So how do you? Like I don’t really know. I mean, I’m sure I’m sure. In his mind, there’s a way that he tries to make himself the hero. But it does seem like self sabotage. Like he’s doing this. Like you mentioned, like, well, I didn’t even enter your mind. It did. I think. I think there’s a clear indication he’s trying to self sabotage. Yeah.

Rachel 32:49
And I called him out on that during the break up that happened. Um, so Okay, so that happened, we got together and then he’s like one of those all in full steam ahead people and this has actually written about in my post where he has plans and a timeline for when we’re getting married for when he’s moving into my place. We’re going to buy a house together and sell his house and he has a whole timeline, like the months of the year that we’re doing this. And to the point that he’s like, sending me houses on like Zillow and Redfin, we’re actually touring houses together. Okay,

Chris Seiter 33:25
it’s scary doing that. I’ve done that. Scary. And I’m not like a super avoidant person, but it’s scary. That’s like, wow.

Rachel 33:34
Yeah. And, you know, I did get the advice from some people like he’s running shoe faster, this you need to pump the brakes. Now, I would try. Like, can’t we just have fun and be like, well, what’s the problem? You don’t want to do this? And I was like, No, I do. So I couldn’t really, really pump the brakes no matter what. And so, we ended up planning a little it was my birthday, we planned a little family vacation, which we had never done before. And I thought we had a good time. Apparently he did not. But my mom also came his family flew in. So it ended up being like a huge family vacation. Um, and then two weeks after that, I got the second COVID shot was really sick one day, didn’t talk to him for most of the day, because I was just laying in bed like dead to the world. And he called me up and was like, We need to talk real talk. It seems like you’re not happy. Like, what did I’m

Chris Seiter 34:35
checking at this point? You know?

Rachel 34:38
I was so confused. I was like, how do we go from like shopping for

Chris Seiter 34:43
as you’re sick with the COVID thing? Yeah.

Rachel 34:47
So and after that, it was like we quote unquote, talked through whatever he the issue was twice. And it was very weird. The things that were talked about. He was like, Well, I feel like It’s a lot of work when we’re together now. And I’m kind of like, well, I didn’t say this, but in my head, I’m like, Well, no shit like, Yeah, you can’t go out every night and play pool like we have a year old your daughter like

Chris Seiter 35:15
it’s the Peter Pan syndrome that Jordan Peterson often talks about how some men just resist growing up. And,

Rachel 35:24
and I think that’s exactly what happened. He did the cliche thing of finding someone younger, who’s still in that party stage who fit his lifestyle better. There’s a clear that’s like, If a man gets a woman pregnant, and she doesn’t match his lifestyle any longer, he will find someone who does.

Chris Seiter 35:39
Well, the irony is people with people like that end up dying with regrets because eventually, you know, the body’s gonna wither. All that’s all that’s left is your mind. And he’s not doing anything to cultivate his mind.

Rachel 35:57
Hmm, that was one thing, even when we were dating before ERP therapy came up at one point. And Anna, that was actually a big thing in her plan. She was like, part of the plan was to get him into co parenting therapy, not couples therapy, co parenting, and he was immediately like, I don’t think you want to co parent therapy. He’s like, I think you want therapy for other reasons with me. So that was a hard No, but also he doesn’t think anything’s wrong with him. He’s like, he said to me, he’s like, I will go to therapy in order to support you going to therapy. But, you know, so I don’t like to throw around the term narcissist. I think it’s overused, but I really do think he might be one.

Chris Seiter 36:42
I don’t, I don’t know. I’m, I’m no licensed therapist, but it does seem to me he’s got some serious avoidant tendencies. And it does seem he really, like kind of doesn’t want to take responsibility. And I can get that, you know, it’s, it’s really hard, especially when you’re feeling really tied down. Like, it’s super common for avoidant men to jump all in, and then jump all out. And that’s kind of what you you’re experiencing. So let’s continue. This is like one of the most, it’s like, we’re going down this crazy windy road in

Rachel 37:25
that I should like, saw this story to lifetime. It’s pretty good.

Chris Seiter 37:29
It’s pretty good. You got me on the edge of my seat.

Rachel 37:33
Um, so yeah, so he like basically same thing as so I didn’t tell you this part earlier. So when I had gone back to my home state right after my daughter was born, our daughter, I should say. I basically like I said, instinctively was a no contact person. So I was doing that. And just like every other time, they crawl out of the woodwork and he wanted to talk and work things out. And at that point, he had been like, I just want more good days and badmouth you, you know, maybe we can do a weekend away together as a couple. Like, he’s a very sweet talker. He’s very charming when he wants to be successful at work, like you know that, that that phenotype. So when I got back to the state that we live in, in my mind, we were going to pick up that conversation. But the weird part was, that was no longer an option. And I had no clue why. And he would not tell me, he’s like, I just it was too much for me. We’re just done. It’s not such an open door anymore. I was like, literally talked about work. Yeah, well, you know, find out password year plus later, it was so good. So so

Chris Seiter 38:50
but Rachel got so mad about that. She threw her phone down, guys. Yeah, yeah.

Rachel 38:57
So the similar The reason I brought that up, the similarity was, like, looks like it’s going one way and sudden complete drop, no explanation, that makes sense to me. Right? Same thing happened with the break up after I got him back because of the ERP approach. And I will say, I think this is really important for people that are trying to do the program. He actually said, when we got back together, I was like, you know, I said to him, why now and he was like, well, he’s like, I’ve noticed a lot of differences in you over the last few months, you know, I was in this relationship that I wasn’t happy with. And a lot of the things that I was concerned about with you don’t seem to be there anymore. And the big thing was because I had relocated, like, I didn’t have my own social network here. I didn’t. I was really dependent on him for interest and stuff like that and friends at some point. And so the ERP like throw myself into my own interests, really is basically He was like, wow, like she’s doing all these things. She isn’t a magnet like she’s, you know, this whole thing. And I was I was always successful with work like, I’m kick ass. And actually, I’m Anna said, because I’m in marketing. And she was like, you know, the marketing and sales clients I have are usually the most successful ones because they understand strategy and go to market and it’s true. Yeah, well, yeah. So basically, all of the things that ERP said, what happened as a result of really reining in and then focusing on yourself, which I hate that phrase, I really do. Because everyone’s cliche like, yeah, yeah, but focus your show, it’s, I would get so mad, it’d be like, people be like, well just focus on yourself. And I was like, I don’t have the effing choice, but to focus on myself, thanks for pointing that out.

Chris Seiter 40:53
It’s all right. It’s all right.

Rachel 40:55
So, um, so yeah, but so I think that’s important to say, um, as far as like, what he said about why he didn’t come back. And I think in my case, even though we didn’t end up together, the ERP program did a few things. For me one, it really did help me get back to a fuller version of myself, because for me post breakup, like I keep going with life, I might like melt into a puddle for a weekend and binge watch NetFlix. But then I’m like, that’s enough, like I got shit to do. That doesn’t mean there’s no emotional pain, but then really pushing into the new interests and really being that independent person, again, where you’re not like checking in as a couple. It really built me up back into that full person again, and taught me I think, to be more discerning it also like building that confidence up also makes you less dependent on someone else approving of you. So it’s being reminded of your own value, but you really have to believe that for yourself. And one of the things that was really interesting roundup learning kind of tangentially is you can have a really high self concept in your work life, and maybe your friend life, things like that his young life. But what the relationship with my ERP ex did is it gave me a really low self concept when it came to relationships like romantic ones. So basically building up that self esteem and self concept with, I can do this, even if it’s not a relationship thing. The belief that you can do things is incredibly important and bleeds into all areas of your life. So I really think that even though I was an ERP to get my ex back, which obviously I did, the ERP approach made me that ungettable person. That is what was it?

Chris Seiter 42:52
Yeah, but let’s just we’re talking about your husband. Now. Yeah, it made European you’re giving me complete credit for winning your husband, which I

Rachel 43:03
actually think, yeah, I mean, it’s the combination of everything right, but like, he even now says, he was so impressed by everything I was doing. He asked himself, he knew initially, he was actually intimidated by me. And I was kind of like, what did she keep?

Chris Seiter 43:20
That’s what you want. You want men to be intimidated by

Rachel 43:23
you? Well, and this is a guy who has never had trouble with women. Right? And so I he says to me, and he’s in sales, right? So it becomes part of your job to figure people out. He’s like, like, he was like, and part of it because I was so held back emotionally and like, had all these boundaries up and was like ungettable, basically. Right. And so he had to pursue in pursuing pursue, and I’m fairly sure actually, I know there was other women around and I just didn’t care because that’s not where my heart was. Right. And I also wasn’t sleeping with him. So it didn’t matter to me. Um, so six months and he wanted more like wanted Oh

Chris Seiter 44:08
may have lost her for a little bit. Of course,

Rachel 44:15
I’m at the person and they stood up and greeting each other. I turn around in there he is with his girlfriend at the time. Okay. But he said to me, he said it on her wedding day that that was the moment he knew that I was waiting for him. And he was like, What am I doing? Like I need to be with her and not the person that I’m with. So basically, he broke up with his girlfriend and started pursuing me again. And three months later, we were married

Chris Seiter 44:44
I don’t know if that’s on a happy ending. I don’t know what it is. You become like so intimidating to all other other men and women that he’s just like, I have to get that one. That’s that’s the goal. Yeah, I mean, She posted Rachel post, like a picture of the her ring and everything on the Facebook group. And it was talking a little bit about how, even though she did get her ex back like she’s, she’s talking about here, a year, ERP kind of like, laid the foundation for giving her that mindset for getting a husband. And no, ironically, you have that optimistic dream that you wanted. You didn’t

Rachel 45:27
really have anything that I ever wanted. Like, he gives me way more than my ERP ex would have. He’s generous. He’s kind hearted. He values me, probably because I learned to value myself like I miss man, like nothing’s perfect, right. But this man,

Chris Seiter 45:47
if you were perfect for you.

Rachel 45:49
Yeah, exactly. It’s like I He spoils me. You saw that in the ring? Good. Yeah, it’s I, I just can’t. Not that I can’t believe it. But the way that this story has unfolded, and, quote, unquote, the happy ending, like, and this is why I wrote in that post, like, Absolutely, if you’re in this program, on your core level, you have to believe that you can have and are deserving of the relationship that you want. And don’t settle for less. And that’s cliche, too, to say, Don’t settle. And I know that we get attached to our exes, because we’ve invested so much. Now you

Chris Seiter 46:36
had a really good reason to get attached, though. I mean, there’s a natural, like, you shared a child with him. And there’s a natural, I think, feeling that you want your family whole you don’t want quote unquote, like a broken family. But

Rachel 46:53
my daughter at Christmas, you kidding me? That sucks? Like, come on. Yeah, have your kid to 2pm on Christmas Day, because that’s the exchange time. Like, that’s my reality now.

Chris Seiter 47:01
But sometimes that’s what’s best for you and the situation as a whole. You know, and I think I think that’s sort of maybe as initially took took a little while for your you to wrap your head around. But you seem to be doing great now. But your iPhone Promax and your awesome husband, and let’s go on.

Rachel 47:25
Yeah, we’re building a house together, like it’s good.

Chris Seiter 47:28
Okay, so just throw that in there.

Rachel 47:31
Yeah, we’re going to Jamaica on Monday for honeymoon, I’m just gonna keep adding. But one thing that I really do want to say, and this was a driving factor with me, and then we do have to jump because I’m late for work call. But I’m in is one thing that I really realized. And that really did change my approach to in addition to everything else was, if you are in a situation where you do share a child with someone, as you were just talking about, it’s very strong and like a factor to want to be back with someone, I want you to really, really think about the relationship that you would then be demonstrating for your child if you had it back. Because what we see as young children as quote, unquote, what love is becomes what we try to emulate when we get older attachment

Chris Seiter 48:14
theory. That’s attachment theory, right? Yeah, sure.

Rachel 48:19
Yeah, yeah. 100%. And like, I know that my version of quote unquote, loves a little or a lot broken. I came from a broken family. I didn’t see warmth and love and how people should be treated and kind of stumbled my way through, right. But for my daughter, it was so much easier for me to want better for her for her to see through the relationship her mom has, how a man should treat a woman you know, and what she should look for. Because if she saw the relationship I had with her father, it I wasn’t good. Yeah, I want so much better for her. So that’s something I think a lot of us don’t think of when we have a child you just want your family to get back together. But think about what you want for your child. Yeah, I

Chris Seiter 49:01
love that. I think I think most people don’t think that we are self interested by nature as human beings but what I have found is usually when you have a child you learn become a little bit more selfless as a person and start to consider these things and sometimes the only way you can have that is through experience and I mean you made you it wasn’t easy for you to come to that conclusion. But again, I don’t want to keep you late for your work call so if you got a bounce I get it. We got more than enough here for most people. She’s a busy woman, people

Rachel 49:37
do his homework and I’m sorry but obviously yeah,

Chris Seiter 49:40
I’ll talk to you about that later. Give you a school thanks for coming on. Seriously, this is amazing.

Rachel 49:49
Yeah, no I hope I hope my story like helped someone and I I can say like through the story I was absolutely crushed like obviously I’m at a happy ending now so not, but I was crushed, like crying my eyes out, leaning on my battle buddies so heavily. Like, everything was so difficult. It really was like you could not pay me to do the last two years over again. You really couldn’t there’d be no price you could put on it. Um, so even though I’m happy now when I got to my quote unquote happy ending, like, don’t let that overshadow how difficult it actually was because it was very, very hard. So people out there who are struggling, I get it. I’ve been there as far as the group itself. It can be good in some ways, because you’re seeing people in earlier stages and later, later stages. I will say at some point, I think it’s good to detach from it because you don’t want to fill your daily feed with all these like, sad stories. Yeah. But I don’t actively pay attention to it right now.

Chris Seiter 50:53
Yep. So thank you for coming on. I really appreciate that.

Rachel 50:58
Yeah, no problem. It’s good talking to big