Today I’m super PUMPED to introduce you to Zoe our latest success story from the Ex Recovery Program. If you’ve ever had any thoughts about,

• If exes mean it when they say “I’m never coming back”
• On again/off again relationships
• How to deal with anxiety and depression during a breakup

Then today’s success story interview with Zoe is right up your ally.

Without further ado, let’s begin!

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Her On Again/Off Again Ex Said He Wasn’t Coming Back… Then He Did

Chris Seiter:
All right. Today, we’re going to be talking to a success story who came through our program, who was in our private Facebook support group, named Zoe. I am going to admit, I don’t really know much about her situation, so I’m going to be learning along with the rest of you as I just basically probe her for questions and ask to see what she did that worked versus what maybe didn’t work. First off, I just wanted to thank you so much for doing this, Zoe. You have no idea how much it probably helps people that are going through breakups. Thank you so much for coming onto the podcast.

Zoe:
You’re welcome.

Chris Seiter:
Why don’t you take me to the beginning? Why did you and your ex break up?

Zoe:
I don’t actually know. He was at my house. We planned to go out the next day. We just had… It was a stupid argument. I don’t even know what it was over. He just said, “I’m going home,” packed up his stuff and went.

Chris Seiter:
Was he living with you at the time?

Zoe:
No. I live with my family, and he lives with his. He was just like staying over for the night.

Chris Seiter:
You guys just have this argument, and he just sort of leaves, no explanation.

Zoe:
Yes.

Chris Seiter:
I mean, was it a break up when he left? Did he actually say, “Hey, we’re breaking up,” or was it just like, “I need to get out of here,” and just leaves?

Zoe:
It was just, “I’m going home.” That was it.

Chris Seiter:
There’s literally no hint at all that he’s just broken up with you.

Zoe:
Nope. No, nothing.

Chris Seiter:
The next day, do you try to get back in touch with him and say, “Hey. I’m sorry about the fight or whatever?”

Zoe:
I waited three days. Whenever we broke up, he changed his WhatsApp picture back to a picture of him and his friends. He did that, and I knew something was wrong. I sent him a long message, basically telling him that I couldn’t fight for somebody who wasn’t willing to fight for me because this wasn’t the first breakup.

Chris Seiter:
This was sort of an on-again, off-again type. Let me ask you a question. How many times had you broken up previously in the past?

Zoe:
About four times.

Chris Seiter:
Four times. We’ve gone four revolutions of the wheel at this point. This is nothing new to you. It’s just sort of the latest time that you guys had broken up.

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Zoe:
Whenever we broke up, I was always the one who kind of begged for him back. I was always the one chasing him. He never chased me. When I didn’t hear from him for three days, I thought, “I can’t. I kind of can’t do this anymore.”

Chris Seiter:
You’re fed up with the chasing. You’re just kind of like, “That’s it. I’m not fighting for you anymore.”

Zoe:
Yes. I thought he may reply, saying, “No. I love you,” but no. I got a, “I’m not interested. I don’t like you,” response.

Chris Seiter:
That really sucks. Also, it’s untrue because now you have him back. There’s a lot to unpack here. Do you mind if I probe into why you broke up the four previous times? Was it always around the same reason? Was it some sort of jealousy on his part or on your part, or is it different reasons every single time?

Zoe:
The first one… We hadn’t even been together that long. We were in a shop. I basically shouted his name, and he didn’t like that. He felt like I was embarrassing him.

Chris Seiter:
For shouting his name?

Zoe:
Yes.

Chris Seiter:
Were you shouting it in a rude way or a playful way?

Zoe:
A playful way. I thought playful. We hadn’t been together that long, so we didn’t really kind of know each other that well. I shouted his name, and he told me that I was embarrassing him. We went back to his house. I didn’t know what to say. I didn’t know what to do. He was working night shifts that time. He left a lot earlier than he usually would. He said, “I’m going to work,” which was my cue to leave. He left. I left. He texts me. I can’t remember what he said. It was something along the lines of, “Being stubborn won’t work with me,” something like that. I replied basically saying, “We’ll talk about this tomorrow when we see each other.” It just spiraled into a breakup.

Chris Seiter:
That’s breakup number one. What about breakups two and three?

Zoe:
Breakup number two was around drugs. Not me, him.

Chris Seiter:
You were just like, “I’m not having any of that.”

Zoe:
I said to him that if he did it again, that would be kind of me and him over. He went and did it again. We broke up there.

Chris Seiter:
Was breakup number three sort of a similar circumstance?

Zoe:
Yes.

Chris Seiter:
Breakup number four, the fight you had… Was it about that?

Zoe:
No, no. This was breakup number four. I always say that maybe the other breakups were just breaks.

Chris Seiter:
Just sort of-

Zoe:
This is a breakup.

Chris Seiter:
This was a strong one.

Zoe:
This was six months, yes.

Chris Seiter:
The drug problem… Has that been solved, or is that still an ongoing issue?

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Zoe:
I’d like to say it’s been solved. I’d say it’s his friends who he hangs around with. With COVID going on, can’t see your friends.

Chris Seiter:
It sounds that worked in your favor.

Zoe:
Yes, big-time.

Chris Seiter:
Breakup number four happens. The drug problem… It’s sort of him just surrounding himself with the wrong types of people. Is he struggling with that still? Is that still, right now, an ongoing issue with him?

Zoe:
I wouldn’t say he’s got addiction or anything. I think it’s just when he’s had a drink, and he’s with his friends, and he just doesn’t want to say no.

Chris Seiter:
You guys break up for the fourth time. What is your mindset, game plan, approach at that point?

Zoe:
After he said he didn’t like me, I went on to say the typical things, “You’ve never liked me. You’ve never loved me,” just the usual kind of guilt-tripping stuff.

Chris Seiter:
Right.

Zoe:
I think after we’d settled the things he said to me, I just thought, “Right. Everything I’ve got of yours… ” Because he did leave some stuff behind accidentally, I thought, “Right. I’m just going to get it gone. Don’t want it in my house.”

Chris Seiter:
All right. You’re getting rid of his stuff.

Zoe:
It’s gone. I went and dropped off… I think I just left it by the side of his car, came home, and text him again just to basically say… It was something like, “You think my family liked you. My family never liked you.”

Chris Seiter:
Oh okay. You’re getting hurtful now.

Zoe:
Yes, yes. I thought, “I’m not letting you get away with this.” I said a lot of hurtful things. I think I ended it with, “You’re dead to me.”

Chris Seiter:
It’s almost like giving him a piece of your mind, essentially. At that point, had you found your peace? Had you gotten the bug where you’re like, “Oh man. I made a mistake. I might want him back”?

Zoe:
I didn’t find peace until six weeks after the breakup.

Chris Seiter:
It had been awhile. Had you guys been in contact pretty consistently since then, or was it radio silence?

Zoe:
I gnatted big-time.

Chris Seiter:
I mean, think of it from his perspective too. It’s almost like you tell him all these mean things, and then your actions are just bugging him.

Zoe:
Completely different.

Chris Seiter:
How did he react to the gnatting? Was it positive, or was it just, ew, get away from me?

Zoe:
After I told him he was dead to me… It was a week before his birthday. I basically had text him just to say… It was like my closure. His response was, “Why are you texting a dead man?”

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Chris Seiter:
That’s pretty witty, you have to admit.

Zoe:
I think I responded with something like, “Oh, you’ve been waiting to use that line for a long time.” We got into another argument.

Chris Seiter:
Oh okay. It didn’t even take long for the argument to develop.

Zoe:
No, no.

Chris Seiter:
This is funny.

Zoe:
We argued. After the breakup, I got diagnosed with anxiety and depression. It was nothing to do with the breakup. It’s something that I’ve kind of been dealing with for a long time.

Chris Seiter:
The breakup is just sort of not helping that though, I imagine.

Zoe:
No, not at all. I got diagnosed. Then I couldn’t sleep. I just decided to text him again. He was being really nice to me, opened up to me, which is something that he had never kind of done in the past.

Chris Seiter:
Had you told him of your anxiety and depression thing?

Zoe:
Not at this point, no. Then I did. I think I had asked him to come and meet me.

Chris Seiter:
Did he believe you? Because sometimes, men who are going through breakups think sometimes, women are just making things up for sympathy. Did he believe you?

Zoe:
I’d say yes and no. Potentially no, because of, maybe, yes, the way I was kind of reacting to everything. That’s when he kind of opened up and was like, “We all feel this way sometimes. You’ve got to see the positive in every negative.” Then I said to him, “Did you mean all of those things you said?” He said, “Yes, you’re not for me.”

Chris Seiter:
It’s just hurtful. That definitely won’t help anxiety or depression at all, hearing that.

Zoe:
No.

Chris Seiter:
Did that spark another fight between the two of you?

Zoe:
No, no. I left it.

Chris Seiter:
You were just really bothered and hurt by it.

Zoe:
Yes. Then I text him again. I was in his town for a work-

Chris Seiter:
How many weeks is this after the breakup? Is this week four or five?

Zoe:
I’d say this is going on week five.

Chris Seiter:
There’s been a lot of contact between the two of you. You text him again.

Zoe:
Asked him to come and meet me.

Chris Seiter:
You tried everything.

Zoe:
Oh yes, because I knew if he’d come and see me, he’d want to get back with me.

Chris Seiter:
It didn’t work the first few times though.

Zoe:
Oh God, no. God, no. I asked him to come and meet me. He responded saying it wasn’t a good idea. I said, “Fair enough. That’s your decision, but I’ll still be there.” I waited until… Bang on, I think it was half six. He didn’t come. I thought, “Oh, I’m seeing red again.” I text him another long paragraph message. Because I’d asked him to block my number, so I couldn’t text him because if I delete… I know his number off by heart. I delete the number. It’s pointless.

Chris Seiter:
You just know it, right?

Zoe:
Yes. I asked him to block it, and he told me to just delete his number.

Chris Seiter:
You’re kind of like, “Well, I can’t. I know your number.”

Zoe:
Exactly. I end up telling him I was going to block him, and I did block him. I blocked him right up until my no-contact ended.

Chris Seiter:
You’re skipping a few important elements there. Week five seems to be when you try all this stuff out. Then you’re just sort of like, “This isn’t working.” Eventually, you probably go online, YouTube or something, and you come across the program, or articles, or whatever, however you came into our field of view. You get the program and learn about the no-contact rule and everything like that. What is your approach? because sometimes, people have a lot of false starts with the no-contact rule. Are you one of those people that would get the program and just be like, “I’m going to follow it to a T?” Are you one of those people that says, “This part sounds good. This part sounds good. This part sounds good. I think I’ll do those parts and forget the other parts.”

Zoe:
I’d like to say that I do follow it to a T. I didn’t want to steer off because clearly, you follow it, and it works.

Chris Seiter:
Is there a lot of doubt when you start, like this can’t possibly work?

Zoe:
I think everyone’s got that doubt. I’ve gone on Google, and I typed in everything. What does this mean? What does this mean?

Chris Seiter:
You’re just furily researching. You’re probably coming across some other people and their takes on things that maybe contradict what some of the stuff we say is. You’re just trying-

Zoe:
I actually followed you and somebody else. Her position was, you do 60 days, no contact. You don’t reach out. If they don’t reach out in 60 days, move on.

Chris Seiter:
That’s a way to do it. That’s a way to do it. That’s not my position though.

Zoe:
Then I came across yours. I would go on your website three, four times a day.

Chris Seiter:
Good, good. I’m glad this website got-

Zoe:
Sat in work, going through it. Need to save this. When I get home, I can read this. I can read this. Then I kind of just bit the bullet and bought the program.

Chris Seiter:
You bit the bullet, bought the program. You do get into the Facebook group. How was your experience there? because every time I talk to people, they seem to think that the Facebook group, just being around that community, seems to be that most helpful thing. Not everyone, but most people seem to be… It’s almost like once you see how other people are having struggles too, you kind of realize, “Oh, I’m not alone.” Was it a similar vibe for you?

Zoe:
It was really helpful. You see it. It’s just post after post after post. I just thought, “The only way people are ever going to comment on my stuff is if I comment on theirs.”

Chris Seiter:
That’s correct.

Zoe:
Get involved because you kind of build… It’s like a group of friends who kind of have your back kind of throughout it all.

Chris Seiter:
Yes. Well, it’s interesting you say that because my theory has always been, the more you help people in the group, people will remember you and help you in return. Most people… When they come in there, they just want help. They don’t ever want to give anything in return. It kind of goes both ways, I think. You’re one of the people that went in there, were like, “I’ll help a few other people, and then I’ll ask my questions to them,” or you probably networked. Did you do the battle-buddy system at all?

Zoe:
Yes. I did that. My battle buddy actually lived in America, so I did get paired with someone from the-

Chris Seiter:
Timing.

Zoe:
Yes, I got paired with somebody in the U.K. She just kind of just left the group.

Chris Seiter:
That’s fine.

Zoe:
I just came across-

Chris Seiter:
Sometimes you get that. Right.

Zoe:
I came across my battle buddy kind of… It was by accident. She asked for my advice on something on a message, and then it just went from there.

Chris Seiter:
Perfect. Are you guys still friends now?

Zoe:
Because she got her ex back as well.

Chris Seiter:
Good.

Zoe:
Since that’s kind of happened, and with kind of COVID, and everything, contact’s kind of dropped a level. I know that if I had a problem, I can go straight to her, and it’s vice versa.

Chris Seiter:
It’s interesting you say that. Your battle buddy that got her ex back… Did she make a oh-I-got-my-ex-back post, or did she kind of keep it quiet?

Zoe:
I think she kept it quiet.

Chris Seiter:
It’s interesting you say that because all I know are the people who get their exes back that make a post about it, or talk about it in a comment, or something. I don’t know the people who keep it quiet. Now I kind of get a growing suspicion there’s a lot more than I even realize. The problem is I really wish everyone would just say it so that I could tally it up to see, hey, this is actually what the success rate is. It’s hard to get an accurate assessment because of that reason. Anyways, we’re getting a little off topic here. You learn about the no-contact rule. You’re like, “I’m going to try this on my ex.” You try it on your ex. What do you do during no contact? Do you fail it a bunch of times?

Zoe:
No.

Chris Seiter:
Are you really focusing on yourself, and energies, and things like that?

Zoe:
I had to do 45 days. I did 45 days, no problem.

Chris Seiter:
I think that was a smart decision for you.

Zoe:
Well, I did the breakup assessment. It said it, and I thought, “Right. Well, I’ve got to do it.” I’d already started my no contact, so I was 20 days in by the time I joined the-

Chris Seiter:
You’re halfway there.

Zoe:
Yes. I had to read the program. I printed it out in work. Printed it out in work, came home, got my highlighter out.

Chris Seiter:
You actually printed this? It’s 700 pages, Zoe.

Zoe:
Oh yes.

Chris Seiter:
Oh my God.

Zoe:
Chapter by chapter, printed it, and I just brought it all home. I just got highlighter out and just worked my way through.

Chris Seiter:
Wow. You work your way through it. Are you actually doing something else other than going through the program? because it’s almost like, to me, reading the program just cultivates your mind. Are you doing anything, like working out at all, or trying to meet new people, or just make new friends, or anything like that? which I imagine is hard with the COVID thing.

Zoe:
I got into walking.

Chris Seiter:
Walking.

Zoe:
Me and one of my work colleagues… We’d go climb mountains at weekends.

Chris Seiter:
That’s awesome. All right. That’s not walking. That’s hiking.

Zoe:
We actually still do that now.

Chris Seiter:
Awesome. Great way to relieve stress as well, which I imagine helps with the anxiety.

Zoe:
It just clears your mind.

Chris Seiter:
Eventually, you get through no contact. You say you don’t break it at all. Does he reach out at all during no contact for you?

Zoe:
No. That’s it.

Chris Seiter:
When he doesn’t reach out, do you have any of these moments where you kind of step back and you’re like, “What am I doing? This isn’t going to work.”

Zoe:
No.

Chris Seiter:
You’re real confident in this.

Zoe:
Yes.

Chris Seiter:
Why? Where does that confidence come from? The fact that you’d gotten him back before?

Zoe:
Yes. He always said to me, “I don’t take an ex-girlfriend back.”

Chris Seiter:
And he did three times.

Zoe:
Yes, yes. I wasn’t kind of worried. I think what worried me the most, which I think worries everyone, is, has he moved on?

Chris Seiter:
When you worried about that, how vivid are the… Because in my experience, sometimes if you let people kind of imagine their ex moving on, they kind of always imagine the worst-case scenarios. Did you ever have nightmares about things like that happening?

Zoe:
Yes, twice.

Chris Seiter:
You did, twice. Oh man.

Zoe:
I went and met up with him. He had a new girlfriend. He said, “My family really like her. My friends really like her.”

Chris Seiter:
This isn’t real. This is a dream.

Zoe:
Yes.

Chris Seiter:
You said it so real. I was like, “Wait, what?”

Zoe:
No, no, it was a dream. Then my second dream after that… It was multiple women.

Chris Seiter:
He’s a ultimate player or something like that.

Zoe:
Yes, it was horrible.

Chris Seiter:
How do you cope with those nightmares?

Zoe:
I have a diary. I just scribble in that.

Chris Seiter:
You’re still getting through no contact. You’re doing the hiking. What about internal mindset shifts? Is the way you look at the situation after you come out of no contact different than the way you looked at it at the beginning of no contact? Do you feel a lot more confident afterwards?

Zoe:
I think it’s quite nerve-racking coming out of no contact because you don’t know how they’re going to react.

Chris Seiter:
Right.

Zoe:
I think because I had him blocked for pretty much the majority of no contact, kind of coming out of it was-

Chris Seiter:
When you say, “Blocked,” you only mean blocked in phone. What about social media outlets?

Zoe:
He doesn’t have any social media.

Chris Seiter:
Oh, that makes a lot of our social media stuff kind of not matter. In that sense-

Zoe:
It didn’t stop me. I carried on posting.

Chris Seiter:
Very good. I’m actually kind of curious. Even though he doesn’t have social media, did he hear about some of the things you were posting on social media from a… No. He’s just not even part of the digital world at all.

Zoe:
Nope.

Chris Seiter:
Very contrarian. Did you get attention from other guys or something like that?

Zoe:
I was actually speaking to somebody else whilst in no contact and whilst… I was actually in a texting phase with him.

Chris Seiter:
You were the one that were talking to multiple guys then?

Zoe:
Yes.

Chris Seiter:
Interesting. You come out of no contact. 45 days, you’re complete. He hasn’t reached out once or made an attempt to reach out once because you have him blocked, but he also doesn’t have social media, so obviously not. What is your game plan? Do you text him right away? You seemed to have met someone else where you’re just sort of talking to this other person as well.

Zoe:
I reached out on day 47, which was a Sunday. The other person who I was speaking to was more of a distraction. It was never going to be anything else, kind of over the-

Chris Seiter:
Did that person believe it was going to be more?

Zoe:
No.

Chris Seiter:
No.

Zoe:
No.

Chris Seiter:
Was that person also coming off a breakup as well?

Zoe:
No.

Chris Seiter:
No. He was just being a nice friend?

Zoe:
Yes, I’d say so. I mean, we don’t speak now. There’s no reason for us to speak.

Chris Seiter:
Day 47 happens. You’re still talking to this other guy, but you decide you’re going to reach out to your ex here. What do you say? Does it work? Tell me about the experience.

Zoe:
My first text was positive. I sent him… It was a, I need some advice.

Chris Seiter:
Damsel-in-distress type.

Zoe:
He responded, I’d say, within 15 minutes. I sent the text, put my phone down, and went out in my car. Just left my phone.

Chris Seiter:
You’re just like, “I’m not going to… ” It’s interesting. I was texting someone a couple of days ago. My wife had me… She wanted me to put together a shoe rack for her, but it was not the kind of shoe rack that’s really simple. It was the kind of where you’re… I have to screw things in. It took an hour. I was texting someone, and I was really eager to hear back from them. It was some designer that I was working with for work. I texted them. I kept looking at my phone. I was thinking, “God damn. Why won’t this person respond?” Because I was doing this woodworking thing, the time flew so fast that next thing I knew, it was 10 minutes, and they had texted back. Sometimes distracting yourself like that, like going out to your car, focusing on something else, is one of the best things you can do.

Zoe:
Yes, it really works.

Chris Seiter:
I think yours is more nerve-racking based.

Zoe:
Anxiety, yes. Big-time.

Chris Seiter:
You’re in your car. Eventually, you go out and get your phone though.

Zoe:
Yes, I came back in. I had a text message. Supposed to respond-

Chris Seiter:
How long were you out in your car?

Zoe:
I went to go fill my car up with petro, so I was only out about 20 minutes.

Chris Seiter:
You just went to go fill up your car up with gas. He had responded.

Zoe:
I came back. I waited an hour from his response time to when I text back. I think I asked two questions, and then I exited. He responded back saying… I think it was something like, “Enjoy.” That was it. Done.

Chris Seiter:
The bridge has been created. Texting phase begins. How does that go? because sometimes, the texting phase doesn’t always go as smoothly as people hope.

Zoe:
I’d say most of my texts were positive, really chatty to each other. It was just natural. There was no kind of… Right. This is what I need to ask. I’m going to ask that, and that’s it. It was the way we used to text.

Chris Seiter:
Let me ask you. You mentioned it was real natural. At some point, did you even care about how you started the conversations? Were you really clever about the conversation starters, or was it just so natural that it was almost like you could just text, “Hey,” and they would respond?

Zoe:
No. Majority of texts that I used, I’d have them approved first by a mod. Then I’d always start with a hock, always. It was never, hi, none of that. It was always a hock.

Chris Seiter:
Were you the one that would start the conversations every single time?

Zoe:
Yes.

Chris Seiter:
Did that bother you?

Zoe:
No, because it’s not about who starts the conversation.

Chris Seiter:
Very good. I feel like I taught you well or something.

Zoe:
I think he reached out twice. That was it.

Chris Seiter:
Were you the one ending the conversations?

Zoe:
I’d say 9 times out of 10.

Chris Seiter:
That’s good enough.

Zoe:
Towards the end, he beat me to it.

Chris Seiter:
He started getting like, “I’m going to beat her before she beats me.”

Zoe:
I think it’s because the texts were getting longer and longer. They’d go longer throughout the day.

Chris Seiter:
Was it an all-day thing?

Zoe:
Yes.

Chris Seiter:
How long did it take to get to that level?

Zoe:
I’d say maybe text seven, maybe.

Chris Seiter:
The seventh, sort of, conversation you had, it was all day long. I’m sure there’s lulls throughout the day where you’re just maybe an hour or two, no one responds because of work and things like that.

Zoe:
Yes, when people are at work, it’d go quiet.

Chris Seiter:
What kind of things would you talk about? because talking all day can be sometimes challenging because you run out of material to talk about. What would you talk about?

Zoe:
It would be-

Chris Seiter:
Was there any kind of flirtatious aspects to it at all, or was it just sort of more interest-based?

Zoe:
More interest-based until we kind of got closer to phone calls in the end. That’s when it would kind of get more flirty.

Chris Seiter:
How long were you in texting phase before the flirty messages occur? Who initiates some of the flirty messages? Is it you, or is it him?

Zoe:
I’d say it’s a mixture. It’d start with humor. Then it would just turn into a little bit flirty and cheeky, I’d say.

Chris Seiter:
Eventually, the phone call phase begins. How long into the texting phase did that take for you?

Zoe:
I’d say I had a spreadsheet where I was kind of logging everything. I only got up to text 16.

Chris Seiter:
16.

Zoe:
I actually met up with him before I did the phone call.

Chris Seiter:
Wow. That’s fine. This is interesting. Who initiates the meetup?

Zoe:
Him.

Chris Seiter:
Him. What does he say? You’re on your 16th text message conversation. You’re texting back and forth throughout the entire day at this point. Is he just like, “Hey, let’s meet up?” Is it something like that?

Zoe:
He sent me a picture of a burger.

Chris Seiter:
Oh okay. He’s like, “Want one of these with me or something?”

Zoe:
It was something like… He sent me a picture of the burger and said, “Would you like to try this?” I just said, “Yes,” not thinking anything of it. Then he said something like, “Oh, I’m off on Wednesday if you want to meet up and go for lunch.”

Chris Seiter:
You can’t say no to that.

Zoe:
Then-

Chris Seiter:
That’s pretty good.

Zoe:
I was on a week’s holiday, so it was perfect timing. We met up.

Chris Seiter:
You met up?

Zoe:
Yes.

Chris Seiter:
How did that go?

Zoe:
Fine.

Chris Seiter:
Are you real nervous when you go?

Zoe:
I was fine until I saw his car outside. Then, kind of, the nerves hit me. I got into his car, smiled, and it was like old times.

Chris Seiter:
Just fell back into the normal roles that you’re used to.

Zoe:
Yes.

Chris Seiter:
How long does this meet up last?

Zoe:
Longer than it should have.

Chris Seiter:
Longer than it should have. Okay.

Zoe:
It was, I’d say, about six hours.

Chris Seiter:
It’s really hard to end those early though, isn’t it? because you’re having such a good time. Do you have that moment where you’re like, “I just don’t want this to end. This is great.”

Zoe:
I know he felt the same because he kept saying, “Oh, do you want to go here? Oh, do you want to go here?” I know what he’s like. When he started doing that, I thought, “Right. I’m on.”

Chris Seiter:
You’re in.

Zoe:
Yes, yes, yes.

Chris Seiter:
You eventually do end it though after six hours.

Zoe:
Yes.

Chris Seiter:
What happens after that? because sometimes, this is the tipping point, I like to call, because sometimes, men just fall right off and then sometimes, you’re way… They’re really into talking to you. Is it pretty much like you get back, and he’s just immediately texting you again? It’s just sort of like you hit another level?

Zoe:
I can’t remember. He wouldn’t text me when I got home. No, he did. He texted me when I got home. He said… It was something like, “How did you find today seeing me?” I answered. I was like, “Oh, it was old times. How was it for you?” He said, “I thought it would be really uncomfortable, but it wasn’t.” Then the next day is when he rung me. That was kind of the calling phase for us.

Chris Seiter:
What I find really interesting is the text message that he used, “How did you find seeing me?” because if you really think about it, it’s extremely self-interested, which is my entire theory when it comes to breakups. Everyone always makes decisions based on self-interest. He’s making it almost like, “What did you think about me?” That’s the first thing. He’s worried about what you think about him. It’s almost implying that your opinion matters a lot more than you realize. Then he’s initiating these phone calls.

Zoe:
Yes.

Chris Seiter:
Do you hit hyper speed at some point? because I feel like you’re getting close to him asking for you back. Or, sometimes men get kind of cowardly about even asking for you back. They’re just sort of like, “Oh, yes. We’re dating.” It’s almost like it magically happened overnight or something. What was it like for you?

Zoe:
That’s kind of actually what happened, literally what you said. We started kind of the phone calls. We were never great on the phone together, never. It was uncomfortable.

Chris Seiter:
Do you ever try FaceTime or video chat?

Zoe:
We do now. Literally, five minutes before I came on to you, I was on FaceTime to him.

Chris Seiter:
Well, see, it’s a lot better, isn’t it, when you can see a person?

Zoe:
Yes.

Chris Seiter:
There’s just something a little bit more powerful about being able to see the person, and see their gestures, and everything.

Zoe:
We kind of started the phone calls. They were never long, five minutes. He’d call me every day after work on our way home. We’d have very short conversations.

Chris Seiter:
You guys are mostly texters then. Texting, got it.

Zoe:
Yes, yes. Then he asked if I wanted to go on a weekend away.

Chris Seiter:
It’s a big step.

Zoe:
Our biggest interest of conversation was bikes. When we had the first meetup, he showed me his new bike. I had a ride on it. Then-

Chris Seiter:
Bikes… an actual bicycle or a motorcycle?

Zoe:
Bicycle. No, bicycle.

Chris Seiter:
Sorry.

Zoe:
On that meetup, he bought his bike. I had a little ride on it. Then that evening, he was sending me bikes on eBay. You should-

Chris Seiter:
He wanted you to buy a bike.

Zoe:
Yes, yes. You should buy this. You should buy this. Look at this video. This could be yours, very much that. I ended up finding a bike. He’d agreed to come with me to come pick it up. It was a four-hour roundtrip. The day before, he texts me to say, “I can’t come tomorrow.”

Chris Seiter:
What? Was he too scared?

Zoe:
I didn’t play on it. I left it for a couple of hours and just said, “No worries. Really excited to pick up my bike.” I thought, “I’m not letting you know that I’m actually kind of upset”

Chris Seiter:
You were really looking forward to the four-hour car trip or whatever with him.

Zoe:
Yes. I kind of just left it at that. Then I didn’t reach out for awhile. He ended up reaching out to me with a memory.

Chris Seiter:
When you say you didn’t reach out for a while, how long is awhile? Couple days? Couple hours?

Zoe:
No, couple of days. It was about four days. I had-

Chris Seiter:
You had picked up the bike by yourself.

Zoe:
Yes.

Chris Seiter:
That has to be scary though because it’s like, everything was going so well. Then it’s almost like you see your first… little hint of doubt there.

Zoe:
He’s a mixture of fearful, avoidant, and dismissive.

Chris Seiter:
He’s a mixture of everything.

Zoe:
Yes. I knew, him pulling back, all I had to do was pull back as well.

Chris Seiter:
It worked.

Zoe:
Yes.

Chris Seiter:
I think it’s just more about giving him space to kind of figure it out in his head. Eventually, you mentioned, he just sort of assumes the two of you are together again. How does that conversation go? Are you the one to push the issue? How does that go?

Zoe:
I pushed it. We had one weekend away, and it was great. We came back, and he had said to me, “What’s going to happen with me and you now?” I got some advice. I responded. He said, “I agree with everything that you’ve said. Let’s just enjoy each other’s company, but I don’t something casual.” Then we had a four-day weekend away, which was coming up to where our year anniversary would have been. We finished work on a Friday. On our way, he referred to me as his girlfriend.

Chris Seiter:
It just sort of naturally happened.

Zoe:
I didn’t play on it. Didn’t pick up.

Chris Seiter:
You didn’t. Great.

Zoe:
Just ignored it, carried on as normal. Then the next day, called me his girlfriend. I didn’t say anything. Then the next day, I said to him, “What are we?” He said, “We’re dating, aren’t we? We’re official.” I was like, “Okay.” That was it.

Chris Seiter:
That’s the best. That’s the best. You got him back. It’s funny how it just sort of naturally unfolds like that, isn’t it?

Zoe:
Yes.

Chris Seiter:
What do you feel like, when you look back at the whole situation, was most important for you?

Zoe:
I think it’s understanding him. Before, if I hadn’t found the program, I would’ve… We wouldn’t be back together. It’s as simple as that. I would have ruined my chances.

Chris Seiter:
You mentioned some of the attachment theory stuff. Do you feel like that was something that you didn’t know before?

Zoe:
Yes. I had no idea about any style of attachment, none of them.

Chris Seiter:
Well, it’s-

Zoe:
Finding that out helped.

Chris Seiter:
I mean, it’s amazing actually, how relevant that actually is. You feel just kind of having a framework to go forward on was important. It also seems to me like you’re actually more confident, I think, than you give yourself credit for because one of the reasons I was asking during no contact, if you had any doubts, was because I find that a lot of people have a ton of doubts. They let the doubt kind of control them. You don’t seem like that to me at all, or do I have you pegged wrong?

Zoe:
I think during no contact, I was torn. Do I want him back? Do I not want him back?

Chris Seiter:
You were just even at a point where, I’m not even sure if this is worth it for… What ultimately decided for you?

Zoe:
When we started texting and how kind of naturally, it just flowed. I mean, after couple of no responses and some negative texts, that throws you back a little bit.

Chris Seiter:
It does, yes. Because I’ve been noticing this trend among people who get their exes back, where they almost get to this point where they’re just unsure if they even want their ex back… They’re almost like, “I’ll be okay without them.” Do you feel like you achieved that mindset as well?

Zoe:
Yes, definitely.

Chris Seiter:
You were the 15th person in a row to mention this. This is why I think it’s almost cliché. It’s almost like you kind of got to get over your ex first before you can get them back. It’s cliché, but I’ve seen it happen in 15 people in a row.

Zoe:
It’s so true.

Chris Seiter:
Last few questions before I let you go… Let’s dive into that mindset. You’ve mentioned you did get to a point where you’re just even considering whether or not you should try to get him back. Is it the kind of thing that you can fake, or do you feel like you have to actually-

Zoe:
No.

Chris Seiter:
How did you get to that point where you achieved it?

Zoe:
I think it was just realizing how happy I actually was on my own.

Chris Seiter:
That’s a great way of looking at it.

Zoe:
My attitude in work, the way I help myself kind of more… I was kind of seeing friends I hadn’t seen in a long time. I was becoming the old me.

Chris Seiter:
The key for you was almost realizing how happy you were not stressing about this relationship.

Zoe:
Yes.

Chris Seiter:
Almost realizing, this is how happy life can be without the worry or stress of this relationship.

Zoe:
If it didn’t work out, there is someone out there for me.

Chris Seiter:
Having that confidence of that really makes a difference. Now that you’ve gotten him back, do you feel like your relationship has been better?

Zoe:
So much better. On that weekend where we became official, he opened up to me like he’s never opened up to me before.

Chris Seiter:
Really?

Zoe:
Telling me things like, “I took you for granted. I realize that now. I wanted to reach out to you, but I deleted your number. I know my priorities.” It was just kind of all the stuff you wanted to hear, and he told me all of that.

Chris Seiter:
He said it. Has his actions backed it up since you’ve been back together?

Zoe:
Yes.

Chris Seiter:
That’s great.

Zoe:
I mean, we don’t see each other as much as we used to. That’s work.

Chris Seiter:
It’s hard now with the thing.

Zoe:
This was his idea. We just opened up a joint account together for when we move out next year.

Chris Seiter:
Oh, you’re going to move in together?

Zoe:
Yes.

Chris Seiter:
Big step.

Zoe:
Yes, all his idea.

Chris Seiter:
I’m really glad you said that because it seems to me, the key for you is just having the confidence to give him space when he needs it. Remember how he did the bike thing, and he’s like, “I can’t come.” Did you ever ask him why he did that?

Zoe:
It was to do with work. They had asked him to do a couple more hours. You can’t turn it down. He didn’t tell me until about four days later.

Chris Seiter:
He’s worried about how you’ll react. That’s why he didn’t tell you, probably, right?

Zoe:
Yes.

Chris Seiter:
You reacted really well. This has been really eye-opening. I really loved the way you put it. It’s just being happy without them and realizing you can sort of live a happy life without this breakup. Is there any other thing that you’d like anyone listening here that you’d… Maybe one piece of advice you can give them if they’re struggling through a breakup and they’re trying to consider getting an ex back.

Zoe:
Buy the program.

Chris Seiter:
Oh okay. Great advice. We’ll end it there.

Zoe:
It’s as simple as that. Buy it. Everything you need is on there. A group of people who you can call, friends who are going through exactly the same as you, because your friends and family… They don’t understand, Whereas you’ve got a group of people who do.

Chris Seiter:
I’m just going to say this is called Buy the Program Successfully. Thanks so much for coming on.

Zoe:
You’re welcome. Thank you for having me.