Today we’re looking at how to get an ex back when you’ve done everything wrong. I thought the best way to tackle this subject was to actually feature one of our newest success stories from the ex recovery program, Sophie.

She ended up getting her ex back and has progressed to the point that they are even planning on moving in together. What makes her situation fascinating is that she ended up doing a lot of things “technically wrong” but managed to overcome those things and successfully get him back which is a rarity in todays day and age.

Things like,

Breaking no contact

Manufacturing meet ups

Arguing on the phone

You get the idea

But despite these missteps she ended up winning him back.

How?

Well, watch and find out.

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How She Got Her Ex Back After Making Cardinal Mistakes

Chris Seiter:
All right. Today we are going to be talking to one of our success stories. Her name is Sophie. And she has a really interesting situation that she’s going to take us through. And I say that knowing nothing about her situation, of course. Yeah, I was telling her before we started recording that usually an hour before we start recording, I familiarize myself with the success story, but I had an appointment before this and I didn’t so much do that. So I am going to be just like a listener here. And you are going to take us through your situation. But how are you doing, Sophie?

Sophie:
I’m good. My ex and I are officially back together now as of probably a month ago, I think. And actually, we are currently making plans to get an apartment together, so that’s the whirlwind of my life at the moment.

Chris Seiter:
That’s big. Okay. All right.

Sophie:
Yeah, I would say that it was almost too successful in some ways.

Chris Seiter:
That’s a good problem to have, though.

Sophie:
Yeah.

Chris Seiter:
So why don’t you take us back to the dark ages when the breakup actually occurred.

Sophie:
Oh, the before times. Yes.

Chris Seiter:
Yeah. Is that a South Park reference?

Sophie:
A little maybe.

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Chris Seiter:
Okay.

Sophie:
So this was our second breakup if you want to count official breakups.

Chris Seiter:
Okay. Well, let’s go back to the first one. That’s interesting to me.

Sophie:
Yes.

Chris Seiter:
Let’s go back to the really before times.

Sophie:
The really before times. So we started dating in January 2020. I had just gotten out of a long term relationship, myself. And I don’t know, that had been two years and I was pretty confident that I wanted to move on. So we started dating about three months, and we started running into some issues. So I think the issues I identified initially were we had some religious differences and just some other, we weren’t on the same page about a bunch of things. He is an avoidant attachment style.

Chris Seiter:
Okay.

Sophie:
I think dismissive avoidant. I know he goes to therapy now, so he’s talked about it a little bit. And then I lean more towards the anxious [crosstalk 00:02:19].

Chris Seiter:
Okay. So you are just like the prototypical couple here.

Sophie:
Pretty much. It’s definitely explosive chemistry at the beginning, but as soon as things start getting into the-

Chris Seiter:
Hard, basically.

Sophie:
Hitting on some of your core stuff, we hit the rocks as expected, I guess. So we did end up breaking up in May 2020.

Chris Seiter:
So COVID is happening here.

Sophie:
Yes, COVID is happening.

Chris Seiter:
Did that have any impact on the situation at all?

Sophie:
I think it did. He’s very extroverted. I’m not. I think we spent a lot of time just together not doing anything separately. And we were getting a little bit sick of the routine as well. So things didn’t seem to be going the way that we had hoped they would go when we first started dating. You get this great vision of the future where you’re going to hang out with your significant other and all your friends. And COVID really did complicate that, I think, because there just wasn’t anything that we could do about it. And both of our mental health took a little bit of a dive as well.

Sophie:
So we broke up. And I, of course, like every other poor girl out there, start Googling. I’m like, “What am I going to do about this? I have to get him back somehow.”

Chris Seiter:
Got to fix.

Sophie:
And I found a program, I don’t remember what it was called, to be honest with you.

Chris Seiter:
Shame on you. This is the… No, I’m just kidding.

Sophie:
It was not your program. But I started getting advice over email like, “You should send a closure letter and you should do all these things.” And I was like-

Chris Seiter:
Okay. That seems like a great idea.

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Sophie:
I didn’t like the format of the advice I was getting. I liked some of the introspective stuff where I was writing about the process and the breakup. But other than the journaling, I felt like I was getting advice that wasn’t hitting the mark for me. So I found your website shortly after that, so it was maybe a week after, two weeks after. I bought the program, and I embarked on my first journey with ERP. So that actually ended up working, because we actually had agreed to a no contact period. There was 21 days, and he kept breaking it, because he just kept wanting to talk to me. We didn’t part on bad terms.

Chris Seiter:
What about you? Did you stick to it?

Sophie:
I did eventually complete a successful no contact. The group was really good with making sure that we kept it business only, because I did work with him at the time. So we kept it to work projects only. And he was very curious as to what I was doing at that time, so following all of my social media still, everything was pretty good. And we actually got back together hastefully, and some of the advice that you gave me, actually, after I talked to you once, was make sure that you don’t fall back into the same patterns. And I think I was just so happy.

Chris Seiter:
Did I do that on a Facebook live?

Sophie:
No, I don’t think. Well, maybe it was. I think it was a Facebook live at one point, but you basically said, “Don’t rush it. Just be steady with the progress that you’ve made.” All together, it took us a month or a month and a half to get back together, so it was basically like just after no contact. He was like, “Can I call you?” And we thought we’d try again. I’d count that as my practice run with therapy. I had no idea how much more difficult and much more painful trying a second time would be.

Chris Seiter:
Okay.

Sophie:
So this was where it gets interesting. So we got back together. Things were okay, but we were still running into fundamental, in my mind now that I look at it, I think they were related to attachment style. They were related to communication style issues that some of the overlying stuff, like personal differences or opinions were hiding the deeper problems in a sense. So even when we worked on that and we settled our religious differences, we settled a whole bunch of other differences, we thought things were going to be different, but they weren’t, because ultimately, our underlying disagreements, the reasons we were disagreeing and how we were disagreeing were the actual problem in my mind.

Chris Seiter:
Can give us an actual example of what that looks like? Not a super serious one, but maybe a surface level one so people can understand what you mean when you’re talking about the underlying disagreements here?

Sophie:
Sure. So I think for him, personal freedom is a big thing. He doesn’t want to have to think the same way as me. He does not want to have to do things-

Chris Seiter:
So he likes being independent.

Sophie:
Very independent.

Chris Seiter:
Very avoidant.

Sophie:
He’s one of the most independent people I have ever met in my life.

Chris Seiter:
Okay.

Sophie:
He has a very sweet side to him where if he chooses to be engaged and be involved in something, he’s definitely there 100%. But he has to be able to make those decision emotionally for himself and not feel like he’s being pressured.

Chris Seiter:
Okay.

Sophie:
So it just, for me, I was pressuring him about some of our differences, and then when I talked about it in therapy, I was like, “Okay, this isn’t a big deal for me.” But there were still things that I kept pushing about. And it-

Chris Seiter:
What were some examples of those things?

Sophie:
So he actually was friends with his ex girlfriend before me still.

Chris Seiter:
Okay. That would bug me. I get it.

Sophie:
It bothered me. It did.

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Chris Seiter:
It’s like the Beaner Method inverted.

Sophie:
And I saw right through it, too. I was like, “I don’t think that she’s here for wholly reasonable reasons.” And when we had broken up, he had gone to her for some comfort. And I guess they had made out or whatever. And he told me about it.

Chris Seiter:
Okay. So there’s some physical connection there as well, unfortunately, after the breakup.

Sophie:
Yeah. And that was hard for me, because they only dated for two months, maybe. But all of his relationships have been two, three months. He has not been able to sustain a long term relationship at any point before me. So when we broke up, the fact that he was talking to his ex again was, to me, a big deal. I was like, “That doesn’t [crosstalk 00:09:04].”

Chris Seiter:
I knew it. I knew it.

Sophie:
So we moved on, disagreeing on that still. And we kept seeing some of… He has a really, in my opinion, not a great friend group. And she’s well ingrained in that, so we saw her a lot. And it kept getting under my skin. And then there was some other things with some other girls where he had been friend with some girls that he’d been seeing before. And I don’t think there was ever anything there, but I think that true to a lot of avoidance, he likes to reminisce, he likes to hold on to things, likes to hold on to old relationships, likes to hold on to old keepsakes from relationships, too, which was weird to me, because I was like, “No, I think I should be the only important person in your life.” And it all exploded eventually. And what I didn’t realize was at the time, I had actually told him at one point before we broke up, this was maybe a month or two before we broke up, “I want you to stop talking to your ex girlfriend.” That’s it.

Chris Seiter:
So gave him the ultimatum, essentially, do this or else.

Sophie:
I did. Yep. And I said, “You need to unfollow her.”

Chris Seiter:
Did you clarify what else would happen if he didn’t do it?

Sophie:
Well, I did threaten a little bit. I was like, “You know what? You need to unfollow her on social media since she seems to interact with you a lot on there. I’m not comfortable with this relationship as it stands, and I’ll take my things and go if we don’t sort this out.

Chris Seiter:
Okay. True ultimatum then.

Sophie:
It really was.

Chris Seiter:
I can’t tell you how often I’ll interview people, and hear this thing, and they’ll say, “Yeah, I gave him an ultimatum.” And I’ll be like, “Okay. Well, how?” And they say, “Well, you do this,” but they don’t really clarify what else will happen if they don’t follow it, but you did.

Sophie:
I did. I was really, at that point, quite ready to just… Because she had been tagging him in things and other things, and every time I would ask him, he was like, “Oh, I don’t know what you’re talking about. She’s just interacting with me. And we don’t talk about things or anything.” And I was like, “Okay, I don’t believe you.” Eventually, it came to a head. He unfollowed her on social media after I asked him three separate times. And that was that. We broke up in April 2021, and this was after several mock breakups almost, where we were really getting to the end of our rope with what we could handle. He felt like I was pushing him for a further commitment, and I was, because the more insecure I got, the more I felt like I needed to push things like moving in together, and fidelity, and all these other things as I saw them.

Sophie:
I think I did make a big deal about things that weren’t necessarily a big deal. But I was definitely putting a lot of pressure on him there.

Chris Seiter:
Okay. So let up the street. You go through the breakup initially in 2020, all during COVID. And then he moves on to this other girl that is his ex. And this period of time between when that happens and what we’re talking about here in 2021, are you just talking at this point or had you gotten back together again? I’m just trying to clarify the timeline.

Sophie:
Like right now?

Chris Seiter:
No. Okay, so you mentioned in 2020, you started the relationship.

Sophie:
Yep.

Chris Seiter:
And then you ended the relationship a few months after this all happens, and the issues in that were that he was constantly tagging his ex, right?

Sophie:
Yeah.

Chris Seiter:
And there’s some issues with disagreements and things like that. Timeline wise, how long were you broken up before you tried to do anything? Are you still talking about the actual relationship and the problems with it? I’m just trying to clarify the timeline.

Sophie:
Yeah. So we got back together in July, I think, of 2020. So it was like May to July.

Chris Seiter:
May to July. You got back together very quickly.

Sophie:
We did.

Chris Seiter:
And then went through another very abrupt breakup.

Sophie:
Yes. And I expected it, but we lasted another eight months or so, just in this year [crosstalk 00:13:46].

Chris Seiter:
So there’s been two breakups that have happened here. The first one happened in 2020.

Sophie:
Yeah.

Chris Seiter:
Who initiated that? Was that you?

Sophie:
He broke up with me.

Chris Seiter:
Okay. And the second one-

Sophie:
Basically, saying, “Oh, I feel like I can’t love you the way that you need to be loved. And we’ve got some differences,” and he saw it as a bit of a merciful thing.

Chris Seiter:
Okay.

Sophie:
And same with this time around, he broke up with me and gave me some of the similar reasons, although perhaps a little bit more angry.

Chris Seiter:
But this time, was it… So all right. So the two breakups, this period in between the two breakups, that’s when he had the make out session with the ex girlfriend, correct?

Sophie:
Yes.

Chris Seiter:
What happens after the second breakup? Does he go running back to her again?

Sophie:
So, I actually noticed he followed her on Instagram the day after we broke up. He deleted all our pictures, and then he re-followed her on Instagram. And I was so mad, like pissed at him.

Chris Seiter:
Was that a revenge thing, do you think like, “I’m going to show her?”

Sophie:
No, because they had been talking this whole time, apparently, and I didn’t know that. He had told me they weren’t talking. So him following her back on Instagram was just like I can officially now [crosstalk 00:15:08].

Chris Seiter:
[crosstalk 00:15:09]. Right.

Sophie:
So I didn’t know if there was anything there or not. But nevertheless, he really just doesn’t like to have anyone tell him what to do. So I think for him, he was like, “I’m just going to follow her back on Instagram.” So actually did the same thing.

Chris Seiter:
You followed her on Instagram?

Sophie:
I did.

Chris Seiter:
That’s interesting.

Sophie:
I like drama a little bit. So I knew based on how he had described all of his previous breakups, so he described his breakup with her very negatively. He said he basically snapped at her for demanding too much of his time and demanding too much emotional investment. And he broke up with her over the phone and blocked her everywhere, and then basically told all of his mutual friends that she was crazy.

Chris Seiter:
Okay.

Sophie:
So I probably should have taken that as a bit of a red flag, myself, but I did this time around. I was like, “This is probably what’s going to happen to me.” So I thought to myself, “Okay, I need to talk to Anna,” so I did start coaching with Anna a little bit.

Chris Seiter:
Beautiful. Okay.

Sophie:
But I made the decision sort of defensively to try an ingratiate myself to the sphere of influence a little bit, including some people that I had been not on great terms with before.

Chris Seiter:
Yeah, you mentioned at the time, the friend circle were not people that you were fond of, correct?

Sophie:
No, I didn’t like them. I made it clear I didn’t like them for him. Again, he values his relationships. So he wasn’t happy with that. So I did start trying to repair a couple of my relationships there. He was very confused, actually, and pretty upset, because he felt like it didn’t give him a place to vent about me or the breakup after it happened. So I got-

Chris Seiter:
He’s got a new girlfriend for that, right? [crosstalk 00:17:21].

Sophie:
Well yeah, right, so I don’t think they were ever actually officially back together, but they certainly seemed to be entertaining that as an option. So I reached out to her. I basically said, “Look, I apologize for how I treated you during our relationship. It’d be nice to get coffee sometime.” And I did eventually get coffee with her during the period that we were broken up. And she basically said, “Yes, he has been pursing a relationship with me before you guys broke up, actually, like pursuing a friendship aggressively.” And she didn’t know that I wasn’t cool with it, apparently.

Chris Seiter:
I don’t know if I believe that.

Sophie:
Well yeah, I don’t know if I believe that either, but she was like, “Well, I figured you must’ve been, because he was interacting with me, but I never bothered to check with you.” And I was like, “Okay.” So I think I did everything wrong, though. I had confrontation with the other woman. I had drama with the friend group.

Chris Seiter:
It’s interesting. So we’re seeing the anxious behaviors take root here.

Sophie:
Yeah. Yeah. I went full panic, because I didn’t know what to do. And he was pretty upset with me for that. I thought it was genius. I was like, “I’ll stay in his life by being invited to everything by his friends.” And he was so pissed about that. He was like, “I need time.” So he reached out to me about a month after the breakup. So I visited his roommate, and she and I were friends before we were even dating. But I visited his roommate. We went to a park nearby the house that he lived at, and I got some very angry text messages in probably late May, early June. And the breakup was April 26. So a little bit of time had elapsed. I was in no contact the whole time. I basically went into no contact right after the breakup, because I [crosstalk 00:19:35].

Chris Seiter:
Okay. How long were you shooting for, like 30 days, 45 days?

Sophie:
No, 45, given that it was our second breakup, and also it just ended very badly.

Chris Seiter:
Okay.

Sophie:
It was to me, I felt like the breakup on April 26, 2021 was out of the blue. I knew we had issues. We had committed to working on them. And he had started a lot more optimistically. He had started looking at apartments for us to move into. He had started really trying harder with the relationship, but at the same time, saying, “Here are my boundaries, and if you cross them, I will break up with you.” So I felt like there was a lot of mixed messages going on. And then one weekend, we spend weekends together, I was over, and he was acting really weird. And he kept being really combative with our friends and everything I suggested, he didn’t want to do. And I just had this feeling that he was going to break up with me. So he started the conversation on April 26 in the evening, basically saying to me, “I think I’m having some doubts and I may just need to work through them.” And less than an hour later, we were basically screaming at each other. And he’s like, “I’m done. I’m not getting back together with you ever again. This isn’t what I want for my life. I’m glad that you’re reinforcing my decision to dump you right now.”

Sophie:
It was very hurtful.

Chris Seiter:
It did not end well.

Sophie:
It didn’t. And I left at 3:00, 3:30 in the morning, just crying and everyone knew about it. And it was just a big mess.

Chris Seiter:
So you go right into no contact.

Sophie:
Yes. [crosstalk 00:21:37].

Chris Seiter:
45 days. And you’re basically poaching his sphere of influence at this point during the 45 days?

Sophie:
Yes.

Chris Seiter:
Okay.

Sophie:
So that, I feel like would be something that I would’ve changed, maybe not doing that. well because I thought-

Chris Seiter:
Then again, maybe it worked, but let’s see how it plays out.

Sophie:
Right. I thought that it was going to be better than it went. And so initially, a week after the breakup, I felt like I needed to vent, so I vented to some ex friends of his that were… I know, bad idea, right. Terrible decision.

Chris Seiter:
You can’t see me, but I’m shaking my head really.

Sophie:
So I did. I vented to some ex friends of his, and I thought the information wouldn’t go anywhere. It did, ultimately.

Chris Seiter:
That is very naïve of you, Sophie.

Sophie:
It was. It was.

Chris Seiter:
Don’t you know people love to gossip more than anything else?

Sophie:
Yep. So they are still not friends, but they had some mutual friends, and they spread the information to the mutual friends, who then spread the information to [crosstalk 00:22:52].

Chris Seiter:
And it’s like a game of telephone. You ever play that game of telephone? By the time the message gets to the end of the line, it’s different. So I’m imagining something like that happening.

Sophie:
And that’s exactly what happened, because a lot of the details that got back to him were not even at all accurate to what happened.

Chris Seiter:
Yeah, people like to put their own spin on things. And they clearly did that.

Sophie:
Pretty much. So the first reach out I got from him was a little bit before my no contact was supposed to end. And it was after I saw him roommate staying out. And he basically texted me immediately after I left the house. Apparently, according to his roommate, he was ready to come out on to the front lawn and confront me, and basically say, “You need to give me space, because you haven’t given me space.” So to him, even though I was giving him space, I wasn’t to talking to him, me interacting with his sphere of influence was a big no no for him, because he still didn’t feel like he had emotional space to process the breakup.

Chris Seiter:
Very possessive over them.

Sophie:
Yep. So I ignored those text messages per the advice of the mods. I did not engage, because he basically said to me, “Hey, we need to talk.” And I ignored it. And then about 40 minutes later, he was like, “If you don’t have time today, that’s fine, but we do need to have discussion.” And I ignored that one. And then he finally sent me a text late in the evening saying, “All right. I thought we could’ve handled this differently. But you’ve made your choice.” And then he blocked me everywhere. So I was blocked on Facebook, Instagram, [crosstalk 00:24:41], SnapChat.

Chris Seiter:
What about phones?

Sophie:
So I don’t know if I was ever blocked over text, because I didn’t answer those messages, but I was blocked on WhatsApp, I was blocked on whatever.

Chris Seiter:
It’s a pretty safe bet you were probably blocked at one point on the phone.

Sophie:
I think I was blocked everywhere to be honest. He was really mad. He was done.

Chris Seiter:
See, I’m sitting here super excited, because it’s very rare that we actually get to talk to someone who was blocked, and got out of it, and got back with their ex, like to this extent.

Sophie:
Yes.

Chris Seiter:
So I just perked up here.

Sophie:
Yeah, I was fully blocked on everything, and I’m trying to remember. So I completed my no contact. And then Anna basically said, “It ends before your birthday, but maybe you could give it a little bit of time after your birthday.” He did not reach out for my birthday. But I kept [crosstalk 00:25:35], I think.

Chris Seiter:
Well, you’re blocked. You’re blocked.

Sophie:
Well, exactly. Right, I’m blocked everywhere. So I actually ran into him in person by accident, and it wasn’t truly an accident.

Chris Seiter:
No, when you say by accident, is there a part that manufactured it? Let’s be honest here.

Sophie:
I felt like it was by accident.

Chris Seiter:
Okay, so it’s manufactured by Sophie here. How did you manufacture this? There’s no shame in it. Flirting is playing games, that’s how it works.

Sophie:
So his best friend, Josh, that’s a pseudonym, and his girlfriend-

Chris Seiter:
So Josh and the girlfriend.

Sophie:
Yeah. They invited me over for my birthday because I’m friends with them, and I had been seeing them after the breakup. Mostly, his girlfriend, Angela, is my friend. And she was very insistent that they would continue seeing me after we broke up. She was like, “We don’t play sides. Whatever.”

Chris Seiter:
What a rock star.

Sophie:
So she was like, “I would love it if you’d come over for your birthday. I know you don’t have anywhere else to go,” because my friend group and his friend group were one and the same, unfortunately. I did not maintain an independent friend group. And after the breakup, that occurred to me. I was like, “Crap. I don’t have any friends.” So don’t do that. Don’t get lost in a relationship where you don’t have any friends, because that was mistake number one for me.

Sophie:
But I went over for my birthday, and I had cake and whatever, and I took some photos.

Chris Seiter:
So it was your birthday. You get invited over by Angela, who’s a rock star.

Sophie:
Yep.

Chris Seiter:
And it just so happens your ex is there?

Sophie:
So no, he wasn’t there. But he lives two streets over or whatever on the other side, there’s a bridge that separates two little communities.

Chris Seiter:
It’s like Romeo and Juliette here.

Sophie:
And he lived five minutes away.

Chris Seiter:
You’re the girl across the bridge.

Sophie:
So I go over there and I have a great time. And I’m leaving somewhat late. I was like, “Okay. There’s no way I’m going to see him. It’s 11:30 PM. That would be weird.” But people had known I was going over there for my birthday, so I think maybe there was some element of he probably heard about that. So I get into my car and I see his car driving past. And I was like, “Oh, my goodness. That’s definitely him.”

Chris Seiter:
You get that boom, boom, boom. It’s sounds like boom boom, boom boom, boom boom.

Sophie:
It was embarrassing for me.

Chris Seiter:
No, let’s do it. Let’s hear it.

Sophie:
I wanted to see if it was him or not.

Chris Seiter:
Okay.

Sophie:
So what I did was I get into my car, spin around, and I start ripping through the area to catch up to him, essentially.

Chris Seiter:
Oh, so you’re driving and you pass him like two ships in the night, and then you say, “Oh, that ship looks cool,” and then you turn around and drive after him. Okay.

Sophie:
That was exactly what happened. So he ended up behind me at the light.

Chris Seiter:
Whoa. Whoa. So you were going fast.

Sophie:
I was.

Chris Seiter:
So you passed him.

Sophie:
I did.

Chris Seiter:
And then you lane change in front of him.

Sophie:
Yep.

Chris Seiter:
Okay. I see where you see the embarrassing part on that now.

Sophie:
The worst part about it was it wasn’t even that, it was the fact that my windows were open and I was playing my music.

Chris Seiter:
No shame.

Sophie:
My windows were open, but I had a [crosstalk 00:29:20].

Chris Seiter:
What music did you have playing? Metallica or something as you’re going through this or Ozzy Ozbourne?

Sophie:
It probably rap music, whatever.

Chris Seiter:
Rap, okay. Got some Eminem playing.

Sophie:
I was [crosstalk 00:29:35].

Chris Seiter:
Lose Yourself.

Sophie:
No. I wanted to give off the impression that I was nonchalant about the whole thing, which in retrospect, was crazy and not nonchalant.

Chris Seiter:
Okay. So nonchalant is like you don’t turn. Maybe you turn around and just stay in line there.

Sophie:
And find a different way to go home. Yeah, exactly. So I guess he was headed back to his place across the bridge. I don’t really know why he was in that neighborhood in the first place. And it seemed really weird like a coincidence that we even ran into each other, but I technically had to go the same way as him, so I maybe just sped up a bit to get there. But at one point, he’s trying to get away from me in his car. I am trying to see if it’s him. And in the chaos, my birthday balloon that had a little tiny anchor on it flew out the window and smacked his windshield. So it has happy birthday written across it on my birthday.

Chris Seiter:
Oh, my God.

Sophie:
Whacks his windshield. So he basically speeds up, gets around, and then drives off to his road. So I know it was him. And I go home from there. So I think, “Okay, I’m going to hear from him.” But I don’t. So basically, I drive home and I wait a couple of days to post the pictures to Instagram, because I thought, “I’m fully blocked everywhere. It’s not like it makes a difference. He’s definitely not checking or anything like that.” And I posted the photos to Instagram, tagged my friend, not his. But obviously, it was his house. And at one point, I had this habit, which again, I don’t recommend, of checking to see if I was unblocked, so I would check every couple of days just to see if I was going to be unblocked or if I was.

Chris Seiter:
Okay.

Sophie:
And I kept posting to Instagram like I was unblocked, even though I wasn’t. So that advice was really good, just keep posting per normal, because you don’t know what they see or don’t see. And at one point, I actually caught him unblocking me and then I was blocked five minutes later. So I was like [crosstalk 00:32:02].

Chris Seiter:
And reblocking you. So he’s doing the drive by where he unblocks you, “Oh, okay,” and then block again.

Sophie:
Checks and then blocks again. And then I was convinced there was no way he was going to look at any of my social media, because after everything that he’s mad at me for, after all of my weird crazy behavior, there’s no way he’s checking on what I’m doing. But apparently, that was the case. So he sees the photos posted a couple days after my birthday, and he reaches out again. And he’s like, “I don’t think you understood me last time, you really need to stop seeing my friends.”

Chris Seiter:
How does he reach out to you? Is this through texts?

Sophie:
It was over text. Yeah, he texted me. And he basically said, “I would like to meet in person to discuss this.” And I was like, “No, I’m not doing that.”

Chris Seiter:
So you’re out of no contact at this point?

Sophie:
My first one, yes. And then I’m trying to remember, I think I broke no contact, maybe, or I didn’t start texting phase, I just-

Chris Seiter:
It’s super common.

Sophie:
Yeah. I think I broke no contact, maybe. It was like a 45 day one, and then I was supposed to extend it based on the angry text messages that I got. So I broke the extended past 45 days or whatever. And I got into it over text with him about our mutual friends. And we started arguing, and he basically was like, “I shouldn’t be having these conversations with my dear friends over an ex of a year and a half.” And he was just really mad.

Chris Seiter:
Okay.

Sophie:
And I finally said, “Okay, I’ll give you a phone call. I’ll explain.” So again, not what I was supposed to do, but I called him. And I talked to him.

Chris Seiter:
You’re going up that value ladder in a very strange way, but there is some-

Sophie:
So I called him, and I explained my point of view. I basically said, “Look, these are my friends, too, and I don’t think that you should have a monopoly on them.” And I-

Chris Seiter:
It’s like parents arguing over kids or something.

Sophie:
That’s what it felt like. It was very immature. So I essentially, then, I basically explained myself. I felt like I did really well on the phone call. And I debriefed it with Anna later. The gist of it was he kept reiterating his points, but then he kept throwing little things in there like, “Oh, if we were to get back together,” or “I just needed time,” or “I need some space,” and things like that. And I just kept ignoring all of it. I stuck to my talking points. I was like, “If this is about our mutual friends, here’s my boundaries, here’s what I think, here’s what I’m going to keep doing.” And then he basically said, “Okay, well I’m going to talk to my friends and we’ll see.”

Sophie:
So we ended the phone call, and then probably about a week later, I get a text message from him saying, “I talked to so and so friend, and I apologize. I don’t think I was treating you fairly.” And we left it there. So I decided to do on the recommendation of everyone else, a second 45 day no contact. I think what had happened was I finished my no contact. I’m trying to remember. The details are fuzzy, because I did so many of them. After my first no contact, I think I did reach out with my scripted text, “Can I grab your expertise on something?” And that was when he first blew up, because I didn’t acknowledge the texts while in no contact. But he was angry about it and he was still angry at that point.

Chris Seiter:
Got it. Okay.

Sophie:
I then was like, “Okay, I got to restart.” So then that’s when I restarted. But so I don’t hear from him for a while, and I found it strange that he had kept the same vacation days that we were supposed to go to, we were going to Provence over for a vacation together. I had taken time off work. He had, in this process, quit at the company that we were at, but he still decided to go on the trip that we were supposed to go on during the same days in July. So I’m doing my no contact, I’m doing my thing. And a couple week into July, he starts liking all of my social media posts. So after he apologized to me, he unblocked me.

Chris Seiter:
Okay.

Sophie:
So I was unblocked probably from late June to early July, I think. And he had blocked me again after we talked before he apologized, because he didn’t want to see all my stuff on my sisters page. He’s still friends with her on Facebook, which I find kind of weird. But I was blocked probably three times fully.

Chris Seiter:
Okay. It’s consistent at least.

Sophie:
So he was constantly back and forth about the blocking me and unblocking. So he had unblocked me, and I just decided to leave things as it was for a while. And I decided to distance myself from all of our mutual friends. And I was like, “Okay, I’m just going to take some actual time to do a proper no contact.” So he starts liking my posts on Instagram, and he doesn’t follow my account. So every time I would post-

Chris Seiter:
He actually has to look it up.

Sophie:
Every time I would post, it would be like within 24 hours, he would go and like the post. And I was like, “That’s such a weird way of signaling you want to interact with me.”

Chris Seiter:
The safe way. It’s safe.

Sophie:
Yeah, it was very low investment.

Chris Seiter:
Yeah.

Sophie:
And so at that point, I was asking myself, “Well, do I break no contact and talk to him?” And everyone in the group was like, “No, you don’t do that.” This is a very low investment move, even though it’s consistent, it’s low investment.

Chris Seiter:
Right.

Sophie:
So I decided not to break anything. And he reached out to me over text, actually, about a blog post that I’d written. And apparently, he went through the trouble of actually reading the whole thing. It was 20 minutes long on my private blog or whatever, and he found it through my Instagram somehow. And he reached out, being like, “Oh, that’s a great blog post.” And so I was like, “Oh, thanks.” And then left it at that. But he was actually starting to signal interest in me again a little bit as time went on. And I decided that I was, again, in a weird, crazy move, going to go on vacation to the same place as he was going, on the same dates. So I didn’t think we would necessarily run into each other. [crosstalk 00:39:17], yeah.

Chris Seiter:
So you had the time off work scheduled, but as he’s going also, you decided to go also.

Sophie:
Yeah.

Chris Seiter:
So once again, you were manufacturing another run in. Okay.

Sophie:
A little bit, yeah. So I was trying to do that again. And he, I guess, got wind of the fact that I was going, and started texting me a little bit about him being there. And he started with small talk and whatever like, “Oh, what a beautiful location. Do you have any recommendations for places I should go while I’m here since you’ve been here before?” And I was like, “Is this reverse ERP?” But as soon as I tried to get any deeper, he was like, “We’re not there. I’m sorry. I’m not a confidant for you at this point.”

Sophie:
And I took that very hard. I was like, “Oh no. He doesn’t like me. He’s just toying with my feelings or whatever.” And so then he found out about the mutual friend problem, and that caused another problem where he was mad about that. And I can’t remember whether I was blocked again, but there was a series of angry phone calls.

Chris Seiter:
I call this a saga. This is really a long process here.

Sophie:
It was. It was super long. And I think it would’ve been so much shorter had I simply kept to myself during no contact, during my first no contact. I think if I had given him space and time to miss me, we might be in a different place.

Chris Seiter:
So a lot of times when I interview people, they talk a lot about their time during no contact. Usually they’re talking about the trinity basics, health, wealth, relationships. Did you do any of that type of work at all or did you struggle with doing that because you were just really anxious about him?

Sophie:
No, I actually really committed to the external appearance of doing all of that.

Chris Seiter:
Okay.

Sophie:
So I started going to the gym again, and I posted on social media on a regular schedule. And I was always going out with people, having a great time. Even when I was blocked, I was doing all of that. And I think that’s initially what made him curious. I talk to him now, and he was like, “You seemed to be doing really well. You were doing all these things without me. And it got me thinking.” So I did work the trinity. I did get myself into a better position, but I think I didn’t [inaudible 00:42:09] some of the-

Chris Seiter:
Yeah, I think just for me critiquing, I think probably the focus wasn’t so much on that when you have turning around of the car and constantly poking the bear with the mutual friends, things like that takes away from that and puts his focus on those things, but it makes him angry instead of the nostalgic feelings that you want. But clearly, something still worked by doing that.

Sophie:
Yeah.

Chris Seiter:
So what’s your take on that?

Sophie:
So I think where things reached a bit of a turning point was when we were having these conversations where I basically said, “I talked to so and so mutual friends. I talked to your ex girlfriend.” And the reason for the outburst was she texted him saying, “I heard everything she had to say and I don’t want to engage with you anymore.”

Chris Seiter:
So basically, the girls get together and they share notes, and it’s like, “Holy crap, look this guy’s been taking us for a ride.”

Sophie:
Yep.

Chris Seiter:
This, of course, makes the ex girlfriend here be like, “I’m done with you,” which of course, makes him angry. And then he, of course, needs to blame someone for the anger, and you seem like the easiest target.

Sophie:
And I was. Yep. And basically [crosstalk 00:43:27].

Chris Seiter:
Yet you technically did nothing wrong.

Sophie:
I technically didn’t. I still think I wouldn’t have stirred up so much drama until after talking to him about it, until after applying some of the better concepts that I learned. I definitely wouldn’t have done it again. But I technically didn’t do anything wrong, either.

Chris Seiter:
I think this goes to show, you can make mistakes throughout the process and still see results. But it prolonged those results.

Sophie:
Yes. And that’s what I would tell anyone. If you’re going through this process. Sure, you might think it’s a good idea at the time, but I promise you, it’s not. It’s not a good idea, whatever you’re thinking of. Don’t do it.

Chris Seiter:
Well, you had some extreme examples, like the best one so far is the balloon, the balloon hitting his car. As if you’re trying to be stealthy, boom, the balloon is-

Sophie:
Happy birthday. It’s her birthday.

Chris Seiter:
Yeah, right.

Sophie:
Yeah.

Chris Seiter:
But eventually, there’s a turning point that happens. So you mentioned the turning point is when you start talking to him about some of the stuff with the mutual friends.

Sophie:
Yep. And we started hashing it out. And I basically, at this point, had decided that I wasn’t sure that I wanted him back. With everything that had happened, with the fact that he wanted to blame me for a lot of things that I didn’t feel I should take the blame for, I decided that I was not going to be apologetic, I was not going to be sappy about anything.

Chris Seiter:
Love to hear that. Finally, you got your power.

Sophie:
I did. And that’s when things started changing. Because I think he realized, “Oh, she might want nothing to do with me.” So at one point, we had a phone call where he was like, “Okay, this is going to be the last phone call, and then I need time and space away from you. And you’ve wrecked everything,” whatever. And I was like, “Okay, fine. We’ll have one last phone call. Let’s do it. Let’s have this phone call. So he called me, and I basically said, “You lied to me. You’ve not been a very good friend. Here’s the reason I said all these things. I had every right to be angry.” And I said, “I feel like I cut my losses in a sense.”

Sophie:
And he was very quiet. And I basically thought I was being dramatic. I was in a bar. I was drinking when I was calling him.

Chris Seiter:
Got some liquid courage.

Sophie:
Really, yeah. I thought I was being dramatic. And I was like, “Look, you know what? At the end of the day, I’m sitting in a bar, 750, 800 km away from you. I don’t know what that is in American, but-”

Chris Seiter:
It’s a good amount. 500, 600 miles.

Sophie:
A while. And I was like, “And I still know more about you and I’m still connected to you than any of these people that you’re worried about. So that’s that for me. And you can think it over and whatever.” So I basically said, “Have a good night. And I hung up.” And we didn’t really hash everything out at that point. I left it alone for a while. Eventually, we had a point where we decided to have a text message conversation about everything that had happened. We figured out where some of the misinformation came from. And he, at this point, actually wrote me a very long apology email. So if you thought this couldn’t get more dramatic, it absolutely can.

Chris Seiter:
Okay.

Sophie:
So this was in August, I think, late July, early August.

Chris Seiter:
We’re almost to October here.

Sophie:
August, yeah I know. August. And he, after hearing everything I had to say, and afterwards, he was like, “Why did you do that? That was a closure conversation. That wasn’t the best think you could’ve done.” But I decided to do it anyway. So after our closure conversation about friends, he sent me this really long email. And basically said, “I’m really sorry for how I treated you during our relationship. I think that you deserve better. I don’t think that I will change my mind. I still don’t want to get back together with you, because I feel like too much has happened and there’s just a lot that I need to process and work through.”

Sophie:
And so I think I had been coaching at this point for long enough that I realized that’s not necessarily true. He’s just an avoidant, and he’s been overwhelmed. So I said, “Okay. I appreciate your email. Thank you for sharing how you feel. We’ll go our separate ways.” And we did. And I cried a lot about it, because I was like, “What if he never loves me again? What if he’s serious?”

Chris Seiter:
Fear takes over.

Sophie:
He wrote me an email. He wrote me a whole email.

Chris Seiter:
Do you keep going back to the email and reading this one part?

Sophie:
Read the email again, read this one part where he said he didn’t want to get back together like 500 times. And Anna was like, “You know what? Just give him time. Just give him time.” So I did. I gave him some time. And then right on schedule, about two weeks later, he starts liking my Instagram posts again. And then-

Chris Seiter:
Super consistent. He’s super consistent.

Sophie:
Pretty much from there, he was really consistent about it. And he then messages me at 3:00 in the morning about a story I had posted. And this was a subtle jealousy post, because I had had a male friend over for dinner, and I cooked dinner for the two of us, and I had his hand in the background.

Chris Seiter:
Got to love those posts. They work so well.

Sophie:
That is definitely one of the things that pushed him to message me, because he had made up his mind. He was like, “We’re not getting back together.” But then I immediately jumped right back into my trinity stuff and going out on dates, and going out with people, and inevitably, that curiosity just crept up again, and he was like, “Oh, I see you still love pasta as much as you did.”

Chris Seiter:
Okay. It’s like that subtle way of being like, “I saw the post.”

Sophie:
[crosstalk 00:50:06] some reminiscing. We’re hitting a little bit of that I remember. And those were things I was looking for in some of his little reach outs that weren’t necessarily super high investment. But basically, Anna said, “Yes, you’re still in no contact, but if he responds in a positive way, that is something that you want to encourage, so don’t just leave it. Make a little bit of small talk. Make your exit. And just finish your no contact that way if he engages.” And I was convinced he wasn’t going to, but he did. So then he started engaging me a little bit. I would do my little, “Oh, got to go,” and duck out of conversations.

Chris Seiter:
All right, so Zeigarnik effect happening there.

Sophie:
Yeah. So I feel like a lot of the principals were good. I just definitely extended it far past.

Chris Seiter:
The execution was not the best, maybe.

Sophie:
The execution was very bad, but I think what I would say my takeaway from this was is that even with all of the mistakes that I made and even with the amount of time, he told me that as an avoidant, because he’s had a little bit of time to reflect on this now, he’s like, “You know what? Actually, I don’t feel like I was even ready to move on during that two, three months that things were really tense.” I guess it was more than three months. And he’s like, “It didn’t even cross my mind moving on at that point.” He’s like, “I was definitely busy. I was engaging myself with other stuff, but in a feelings sense, I hadn’t even processed it.” So for me, I processed it all in two weeks, but for him, he didn’t even start to process or even start to reminisce at all.

Chris Seiter:
Yeah. It’s funny how that works, because you mentioned that you have some anxiety traits from an anxious attachment. Well, what’s interesting is after a breakup, the anxious person begins to process immediately, but the avoidant person does not process at all until time goes by. So what you have is this weird dichotomy where the anxious person has already processed things, and they’re able to get over it a little bit quicker, as odd as that sounds. There’s a hyper obsession right after. But by the time they get over it, that’s when the avoidant person begins to start processing, and that’s where this weird disconnect happens. So I’m wondering if that’s what happened here.

Sophie:
That’s exactly what happened. I was like, “I’m done.” I told Anna, I was like, “I’m done with him. That’s it. I’m not chasing this man anymore. I’m done trying. This program is really hard, and I don’t think it’s for me, so I’m just going to move on.”

Chris Seiter:
It is hard. Yeah.

Sophie:
And it is. But I think it was when I started to move on, that he was like, “Oh, wait, wait, wait.”

Chris Seiter:
Yeah, “Wait, wait, don’t go. Don’t go.”

Sophie:
So I basically just took it slow. I then started with normal texting phase, pretty much. Built rapport. Used tied theory. I was still single. We were still taking it really slow. And then how we ended up getting back together, actually was I noticed that he started coming to me with emotional things and I could tell that I was the first person that he would reach out to when something good happened and when something bad happened. And so I made note of that in my mind where I was like, “Okay. We’re at a point where we’re still friends, and he appears to be looking for girlfriend benefits that he does not get to have at this time.”

Chris Seiter:
He doesn’t have that yet.

Sophie:
He doesn’t have that privilege, right.

Chris Seiter:
You got to put a ring on it for that kind of stuff.

Sophie:
I’m not talking about it today until you marry me.

Chris Seiter:
We’ll talk about that after we stop recording.

Sophie:
So anyways, we had some phone calls. We went from texting to calling. And then we had started dropping a little bit, “Oh, we should maybe go out.”

Chris Seiter:
See each other.

Sophie:
Yeah, see each other or like, “Oh, so and so has a thing going on in a few weeks or a month from now, there’s another car show or whatever, some mutual interests.” So during one of our phone calls, he definitely got into his feelings about some things, and it wasn’t specific to me, it was just too much for me to handle. So I said, “I need a day to think about it,” and I stopped talking to him for a couple of days. And then I said, “Okay, I’d like to call you.” So I called him, and I said, “I don’t want to be friends with you.” And he got super mad. He was like, “Well, then why did you bother sticking around in my life and why did you talk to all my friends? And what was the point of all of this then?” And I was like, “No, you moron. I don’t want to be friends with you.”

Chris Seiter:
I want to be more than friends.

Sophie:
Yeah, and I was like, “I still have some feelings for you. I still like you.” And he went all quiet and he was like, “Oh.” And he was like, “I did not want to allow myself to hope. So even where you thought you were dropping really obvious hints during texting phase, even though you thought you were dropping really obvious hints during calling,” he’s like, “I did not want to allow myself to hope and I was hoping that time would work it out in my favor.” He’s like, “I was hoping that maybe we could meet up and then if things went well, maybe I could ask you for coffee or something.” So I guess what I took as disinterest was actually just him not wanting to push the limit a little bit or move things too fast. And he still expressed that to me. He was like, “Look, I don’t want to rush anything. I feel like I need to process still.”

Sophie:
But he said, “Let me take you for coffee.” So we went for coffee, and that was really great. And then we just started hanging out again. And then he met my dog and he asked me to be his girlfriend again in late September, I guess, maybe mid-September.

Chris Seiter:
All right. So we’re caught up a month after now.

Sophie:
Yeah. Just about a month ago.

Chris Seiter:
And you mentioned you’re looking at apartments?

Sophie:
We are. Yeah. He’s come to me with all this. Basically, he said, “The reason I re-engaged with you was you seemed different. When I would engage you on things, you responded differently. You were more light hearted about things. And you didn’t take everything so seriously or so crazy.” And he was like, “I kept wanting to talk to you because you kept making jokes, and small talk, and things that I was really comfortable with. So he said he was really, really curious about that. And I guess the point is, the emotional stuff is supposed to come later, and especially for him, it was important that it did. He did not want to end up in the same mess that we were in before. So since then, we’ve been working through. And we’ve had a couple of fights. But we’ve handled them very differently, where I’ve been like, “Okay, you know what? I think we need a minute. We’ll come back to this in a few hours or tomorrow or whatever, and if you can’t see me,” I’m like, “You know what, no problem. You can’t see me today. Go see your friends. Go do whatever.”

Sophie:
And that’s something that he was like, “Oh, yeah. This is something I still want in my life.” Because I guess everyone looks for what’s in it for them, and in that sense, he realized he would have a greater sense of freedom to make decisions without fearing the anxious consequences, essentially. So he’s like, “I think we should move in together. I think we should do all these things that we were planning to be doing.” And that’s come over the last week or so. He was still inching things like, “Oh, I know we’re moving to the same place. Our leases are up around the same time. I’ve got a male friend that I could move in with, or we could look at somewhere.”

Chris Seiter:
Yeah. Let’s look around a little bit.

Sophie:
Yeah. So I was like, “Oh, you want to move in with me?” And I could’ve been like, “Yes, let’s move in. Let’s do all these things.” But I was like, “I’ll think about it. I’ll entertain it. And if we find somewhere, then maybe we could think about it.”

Chris Seiter:
But deep down inside you’re like, “Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.”

Sophie:
I know. Right. And I’ve learned I just have to hold my horses. If I get too excited and I get too pushy, that’s where-

Chris Seiter:
Yeah, I think a good rule for you going forward is the if they pull back, you pull back ideal. Because that’s something that they feel like you’re giving them space. So like you mentioned, if he wants to go out with friends, you’re not as taking offense to why aren’t you hanging out with me instead of them. But allowing them to do that, when they pull back, you pull back a little bit. That you’ll find, especially with avoidant personalities, that works really, really well. And you figured that out.

Sophie:
It works like magic, I think. If I really want results, I’m going to just-

Chris Seiter:
And the beauty is if he watches this interview, it will still be effective. I promise you, it will still be effective.

Sophie:
Oh, yeah.

Chris Seiter:
Like, “Dude, I’m telling you, this is what she’s doing. And I’m telling you, it’s going to work on you. There’s nothing you can do.”

Sophie:
Yeah, and that’s basically it. When I told him about coaching with Anna and everything else, he’s like, “Man, I could be mad that I was a little bit hoodwinked.” But he’s like, “But it’s still meeting all of my needs, so I don’t feel like that is something that I’m going to worry about.”

Chris Seiter:
That’s good.

Sophie:
He’s like, “I still feel like we have the relationship that we want to have and I feel comfortable finally to approach you with things instead of feeling like you’re always nagging me, or pressing me for information, or telling me to share, or open up my feelings and things like that.”

Chris Seiter:
So looking back, what do you think was the most important key component to your success?

Sophie:
Definitely could’ve had more emotional control, but I think emotional control in the end was something that salvaged some of those situations.

Chris Seiter:
For you especially. Okay.

Sophie:
But I also think what was key to success? I think working that trinity, doing all that stuff, even when you think they’re not looking, I was hard blocked, and he definitely was checking on me. So he was seeing all the stuff-

Chris Seiter:
I tell people that, but they never believe it.

Sophie:
No, and I didn’t believe it. I was like, “There’s no way.” Everyone else I can believe that was hard blocked, everyone else, I’ll believe that their ex is checking their page, not mine. No, he was. And I busted him one time for it. And he subsequently admitted to me, “Yes, I was stalking your Instagram then when I had blocked you, because I was mad at you, but I wanted to know what you were doing and if you were doing things that were going to make me more mad.” So I think in a certain way, it was like we had not caught up in the process to the grieving part. He was like, “I was mad and I just wanted to see if you were doing anything that was going to make me more mad.”

Chris Seiter:
It’s interesting. It’s almost like he was going through the five stages of grief, but stuck in that anger stage because of all the things that you were doing.

Sophie:
Yeah.

Chris Seiter:
He wants to move on to the next stage, but you keep pulling him back to that anger stage.

Sophie:
And that was my bad in some ways. I think I did definitely poke the bear in some ways.

Chris Seiter:
That’s interesting. I got to think about that. Because there’s always something you can learn from people when they do things “not the correct way.” Because you did get a positive result in the end. So it’s interesting.

Sophie:
I think it was ultimately, it wasn’t about what I was doing so much as how I was doing it, and I think the program has definitely, from the first time that I used it to now, it’s definitely shifted a lot more towards you have to have that attitude change. You have to have that intangible. And in some ways, you really have to decide at a certain point, “I’m moving on.” Because it wasn’t until I had that emotional shift to like, “I don’t know if I want him back. I don’t even know if he fits my current goals, and my coaching goals, and my therapy goals, and my life goals,” where that was I felt the switch. It’s not just something you can manufacture with exactly the right wording always. But I felt like the way things were structured, the way that Kirstie does her texting guide, for example. It’s all very… It’s meant to give you that confidence of emotional control and doing things the right way.

Chris Seiter:
Well, that’s beautiful. There’s not a better testimonial than that. I try to tell people, “The key to no contact is to outgrow your ex. That’s the mentality that you need to have.” But people don’t get it.

Sophie:
It is. Yeah. I really think that that’s-

Chris Seiter:
So, Sophie, thanks so much for coming on. I really appreciate this. This is a really intriguing story. I love all the twists and turns. I love you’re full blocked, and then you get unblocked. And then you break up again, and then there’s the ex girlfriend, and then you talk and share. I love it all.

Sophie:
Yeah. It was a really wild ride, but I think in hindsight, a lot of the things that he’s shared on his own and a lot of the things that we’ve talked about now being back together are all things I learned during ERP. [crosstalk 01:04:41].

Chris Seiter:
We will gladly take credit for that. Thank you.

Sophie:
Definitely he was like, “I needed that space. I don’t think people understand how much space of what is actually needed and how much time they actually need.” People get afraid like, “45 days, what if he forgets about me?” He’s like, “I wasn’t even close to forgetting about you at 45 days.”

Chris Seiter:
I know.

Sophie:
So I think even in telling him about the program, he’s like, “It actually helps me feel like there was some people advocating for me, too, where it wasn’t just that you were trying to get me back, but also it was there are people that were actively supporting you into better habits and into a person that’s ready now for the relationship that we have.”

Chris Seiter:
The funny part is almost no one has good relationship habits. Almost no one gives people space, because they want to fix things right away. But thank you. This was amazing. I really appreciate you coming on.

Sophie:
Absolutely, Chris. I’m super happy to be a success story, and I really think that going forward, I will continue to apply a lot of the principles, a lot of things that I learned. And I recommend this program to everyone that I meet. I’m like, “Oh, you’ve been through a breakup? I have something for you.”

Chris Seiter:
Thank you.

Sophie:
Because I know my instincts would never have gotten me to this place. I can be fully honest in saying I would’ve continued to make all the worst mistakes and I don’t think that I would be in a healthier and happier relationship now for it. Yeah.