Today I talk to Jenny who got her ex back without fully completing a no contact rule. I found her situation completely fascinating because she’s a bit of a unicorn.

The no contact rule without a doubt is one of the premier strategies in the industry so when someone succeeds without out I’m always interested in their approach.

Technically Jenny did do a no contact rule but not the original timeframe she had set out to complete.

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How Jenny Got Her Ex Back Without No Contact

Chris Seiter:
All right. Today we have brought on Jenny, one of our success stories from our private Facebook group. Before we started recording, I was telling her that she’s a bit of a unicorn because she didn’t follow the exact strategy with no contact, and she’s one of those rare people that got her ex back. We’re going to basically sit down with her for 35 to 45 minutes, and just interview her, and figure out what she did to successfully get her ex back. By her own admission, it seems like she still can’t believe she got him back, which is kind of awesome. How are you doing, Jenny?

Jenny:
I’m doing great. I’m glad it’s Friday. The sun is shining today. Having a really good day.

Chris Seiter:
We were talking a little bit. You said the weekend looks like it’s going to be a bit rainy in your side of the states. Hopefully, sometimes the weather might get it wrong.

Jenny:
We need a little bit of rain for some flowers, so I’m okay with it.

Chris Seiter:
That’s true. My grass is dying outside because of a lack of rain. I’m hoping it rains. Anyways, why don’t you take me back to the beginning? Give me a little bit of a briefing on your past relationship with your ex because you had mentioned before we started recording that it was a little bit rocky a couple of times before.

Jenny:
Yes. It has not been a perfect relationship. We’ve been together almost three years now. Last summer, we actually made the decision for him to move in with me. During that time that he lived with me, that’s when the pandemic happened. Not only were we first living together for the first time, but then we were kind of forced to stay together for a long time. During that time, there was kids involved, his kids, my kids. We just got really rocky, really fast.

Jenny:
He actually ended up moving out and getting his own place, but we ultimately decided to stay together still, which it was like taking a step backwards to take a step forward. Then I think it was about a month or so ago. We were just having a conversation. At one point, during the conversation, he was just like, “I can’t do this anymore.”

Jenny:
I was completely blindsided. I didn’t understand. What do you mean you can’t do this anymore? We were just fine a couple days ago. In fact, we had gone to the park with our kids. When it comes to our kids, it’s a really serious, serious situation. I was kind of confused, and blindsided, and really hurt, and didn’t understand. Immediately, in that moment, I was doing the grasping for straws, just begging, “Don’t leave me. I can’t live without you. What are you doing? You’re my person.”

Jenny:
Then after that, it was just silence. I didn’t hear from him at all, which is completely unlike us. We talk every day. Then the hurt just kept coming. I’m even more confused, and more hurt, and just didn’t understand. Now we don’t live together, so it’s not like I can just reach out to him. I had all those thoughts of, do I go to his house? Do I go to where he works? That whole stalker mentality starts sinking into your brain.

Jenny:
I was like, “What am I going to do? This is my person. This is my future.” In the past, I was kind of that person, the chaser, going after them, and begging, and just doing that whole thing that we always do. I think it was day three. I found your program online. I immediately was like, well, I don’t know if I really want to go through with this. I don’t know if this is for me. I was reading some of the videos. I literally read every single article. I think there’s 600 or something like that.

Chris Seiter:
600 articles, yes.

Jenny:
I read all of them.

Chris Seiter:
I’m actually in the process of redoing some of them since they’re a little outdated. Before we actually started reviewing or interviewing, that’s literally what I was doing. Someone who reads 600 articles… I can barely read them myself, and I’m going through them. I tip my cap to you. That’s impressive.

Jenny:
I was just in that desperation phase. What am I going to do? How do I do this? What is he thinking?

Chris Seiter:
Did you bookmark the website or something?

Jenny:
Yes.

Chris Seiter:
That’s crazy.

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Jenny:
I have two tabs at work. I was working on one and then reading on another.

Chris Seiter:
The ultimate multi-tasker.

Jenny:
I had to do something with my time.

Chris Seiter:
Well, I guess that’s kind of a productive outlet. You’re learning.

Jenny:
Yes. I was desperate. I didn’t know.

Chris Seiter:
Did you do the same thing with the videos?

Jenny:
I actually didn’t watch them as I was reading just because I was at work, and I can’t do video and work at the same time.

Chris Seiter:
Oh yes. That kind of gives away the whole secretive…

Jenny:
Right.

Chris Seiter:
You’re supposed to be working.

Jenny:
Right. I actually didn’t start watching the videos until I got the program. I would read, and watch the video, and then read the PDF. That’s just kind of what I was doing with my time. I didn’t realize time was passing as I was reading. Then all of a sudden, it was a week later. Then I was in the Facebook group. People kept posting stuff. I was like, yes. I’m like, “Oh, I’m with that. I’m right there with you. I know exactly how you feel.”

Chris Seiter:
Right.

Jenny:
I really think that the Facebook group was something that really helped me, too, because seeing people go through the exact same thing I was going through, struggling with the exact same feelings I was struggling with, just kind of having that support system of, okay, I’m not crazy. Other people are doing this too.

Chris Seiter:
This is normal.

Jenny:
Yes, this is normal. Then just being able to also see what other people are saying or doing that is working or not working… I was like, okay, well, I’m not going to do that.

Chris Seiter:
Yes. We get a lot of that. Right, right, right.

Jenny:
That was really my goal. Then I got to the point of the ungettable girl topic. The way that I saw that was, no one would want to be with someone that’s begging, and sad, and crying. I need to make sure that I’m emitting this kind of secure relationship vibe out to the world. Whether he sees that or someone else sees that, I wanted that to be me. They say success is not linear, or grieving is not linear, or whatever is not linear. That’s exactly how it felt. Some days, I was bad-ass, and I could do this. It’d be fine. Then the next day, I was in my bed with the ice cream.

Chris Seiter:
I think that’s so normal too.

Jenny:
It is.

Chris Seiter:
It’s so overlooked for a lot of people. Everyone always thinks it’s just, one day after the next, it’s going to be perfect. You’re going to be building up that ungettable mentality, but no. It’s like two days in a row and then one day, something happens. You’re just down in the dumps. Then you kind of have to get back up on the horse. It just kind of is this… I mean, yes.

Jenny:
For me, it was little triggers. I would find something. I have this note that he wrote me on my desk that I look at all the time.

Chris Seiter:
Oh no. Right. You look at it, right?

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Jenny:
I was like, right? I was like, why would he write this if he didn’t mean it?

Chris Seiter:
I mean, what’s interesting about the whole thing from what I’m hearing about your situation so far was how out of the blue it seemed. I kind of imagine, from his perspective, it must have been percolating for a while. If I’m him, I think maybe he’s having trouble… He has the idea, almost like… I watched Inception the other day. It’s top of mind right now. The whole movie is about planting an idea in this guy’s head, and it kind of grows.

Jenny:
Kind of grow it.

Chris Seiter:
Consumes him, right. I’m thinking your ex, when that breakup happened, because it was so out of the blue, and it was just almost in the middle of a conversation, which is kind of wild, it must’ve been really percolating inside and growing until it finally bubbled up. He just couldn’t let it out anymore, or couldn’t contain it anymore, and had to let it out. I’m kind of curious. Once we get through your situation, if you actually asked him what his experience was with that because I think that could help a lot of people who are in a similar situation, whose exes just sort of cold-cocked them out of the blue.

Jenny:
Out of nowhere, yes. We didn’t talk. I tried to do the social media rules where I was supposed to say things about myself. I bought myself tickets to this art show that I’d been wanting to go to for a long time.

Chris Seiter:
Well, that’s pretty rad.

Jenny:
I went with my friends, which I’m not a big go-to-a-club-or-a-bar kind of person, but I went out with my friends.

Chris Seiter:
Right.

Jenny:
Then I went to a outside concert with my parents. I was just in the sun. It was a blues show, and it was just so relaxing. In those moments, I was okay. I was fine. I was having a good time. I felt happy or in my zone. I looked that way from the outside.

Jenny:
Later on, he did admit, “I was stalking you. I watched all your stuff.” During that time, I started posting… I’m a big TikTok user. I actually started doing a daily TikTok every day of something positive, a positive quote or a positive uplifting message. I actually started doing it for myself so that I could inspire myself or inspire others. When you do that, you can post it on all your social media.

Jenny:
He was seeing those videos and was… Later on, he had mentioned, “I didn’t know if me leaving was a good thing for you because you just seem so happy.” I was like, “No. Sometimes but not all the time.” My idea was just, I need to be positive. I need to have this positive energy. That’s what I want back. That’s how I want that positive energy back.

Jenny:
It was hard. It was definitely hard. What initially ended up happening was I was reading all this stuff on the Facebook group. Everyone’s like, no contact, no contact. He had sent me a message, “Hey.” Because right after the breakup, I was like, “Let’s talk. Let’s meet for some coffee or something.”

Chris Seiter:
Right. He was not having it.

Jenny:
He was like, “No, I don’t want to talk to you.”

Chris Seiter:
How much time had passed before this all occurs?

Jenny:
Probably a couple weeks, at least three weeks. I mean, I was getting there.

Chris Seiter:
Three weeks. Oh, it’s 21 days. That’s almost kind of a smaller little no-contact.

Jenny:
The short one.

Chris Seiter:
Right.

Jenny:
He sends me this text message. He’s like, “I want to meet up with you, or are you open to meet up?” At first, I wasn’t going to reply at all because you’re not supposed to reply at all, but I was just kind of like, “Well, I’m actually busy next week. I can’t really meet with you,” which to him… He immediately responded, “Oh, well, I just want you to know that I’m available whenever you need to meet or whenever is good for you.” He wanted me to know he was available.

Chris Seiter:
You literally told him that you were busy, but you can meet him next week.

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Jenny:
Yes. I was like, “Maybe next week.”

Chris Seiter:
That’s pretty clever tactic.

Jenny:
I did not have plans.

Chris Seiter:
Of course. Right. It’s all a game, but hey, he broke up with you.

Jenny:
That’s right.

Chris Seiter:
Hey, you can play a little games back.

Jenny:
You can wait.

Chris Seiter:
What happened?

Jenny:
That was really, really hard because I did want to talk to him. I did want to see him. I did want to say all the things I’ve been wanting to say. It was really hard to kind of play that game. I’ve been journaling every day and writing all the things down that I want to say. Ultimately, in the end, I didn’t end up saying any of those things that I had written down.

Chris Seiter:
It’s funny how that works, isn’t it?

Jenny:
Yes.

Chris Seiter:
You write it all down. You’re like, okay, this is the perfect thing to say, but when you’re in the moment, it’s kind of like, what was that again?

Jenny:
Yes. It was very interesting. It was probably a couple days after. It was the weekend after he had sent that text saying he wanted to meet up. I was just sitting there in my bed journaling. I had this really, really strong feeling that I wanted to say something. You have those throughout the whole time. You want to text. You want to call. You want to see him or whatever. This time, it just felt really different. I didn’t really want him to say, I love you or let’s meet up. I just wanted to reach out somehow.

Jenny:
I just sent a text. It was 9:00 at night. I said just in a text. I was just like, “I just want you to know I’m thinking about you.” That was it. No, let’s talk. No, let’s have a conversation. Just, I just want you to know you’re on my mind, kind of thing. I’m finishing journaling. I’m sitting there in my bed journaling, and my phone goes off, which I know he’s replied to me. I’m like, I’m not going to answer that right now. I’m just going to finish journaling. I’m doing everything, getting ready for bed.

Jenny:
I finally look at my phone. He was asking me about my weekend, or how I was doing, and that I look so happy. I was just like, “Well, I’m just sitting here journaling. I’m not doing anything serious.” Then either he said or I said, “Do you want to text right now?” In my head, I’m thinking, “I kind of want to go to bed.” I was like, “Okay. I’ll text-

Chris Seiter:
He was not your first priority.

Jenny:
No.

Chris Seiter:
Sleep was your first priority, which is kind of the beauty.

Jenny:
Right. I was like, “Well, I’ll text for a little bit, but I’m going to be going to bed soon.” It was small talk, that little value chain of just small talk. “Oh, what’d you do this weekend?” that kind of thing. “Oh, I went to a show with my parents,” or whatever. Then out of the blue, he was like, “Can I tell you what I’m thinking right now?” I’m like, “Okay, sure.” He’s like, “I really just want to come over to your house and tell you what I need to tell you because there’s some things I want to say to you and then I can just leave.”

Jenny:
I was like, it’s 10 o’clock at night. I don’t know if that’s really a good idea. I talked to my son. I was like, “Hey, he wants to come over. How do you feel about this?” Ultimately, I said, “Okay. Well, you can come over, but we’re going to stand outside on my front porch.”

Chris Seiter:
Sit outside.

Jenny:
You can’t come in. He did. He came over. It was 10:00 at night. He came over. It’s a 35-minute drive from his place. He stood outside. He said all the things. He said, “I want to be with you. I miss you. I want to spend the rest of my life with you. I told my kids that I want to move in with you at the end of my lease. I still want to marry you in two years,” all these things.

Jenny:
Again, all the things that I’d written down just flew out of my brain. I’m like, “Oh, okay,” completely shocked that this is what he’s telling me because at the time, I’m expecting him to just say, “Look, this is my life. I don’t really think this is where it’s going or whatever.” I really stood my ground. I was like, “Well, that sounds good. I want that too. Let’s just kind of see where this goes.” Then he left. There was no him coming inside. There was no sleepover, none of that.

Chris Seiter:
It ended abruptly, and then it began again extremely abruptly.

Jenny:
Right.

Chris Seiter:
Then he just left. It’s kind of like a drive-by proposal, and then he’s out of it.

Jenny:
Right.

Chris Seiter:
That’s hilarious.

Jenny:
We just sat outside, and he told me all these things. I was like, “Well, I’ve been missing you too. I really want to be with you. I’ve been waiting for us to talk or whatever.” It’s kind of like, we not necessarily picked up where we left off, but even in a better spot now because we have all these plans that we’re doing. He’s been sending me houses that he’s wanting to possibly go look at this summer.

Chris Seiter:
Well, that’s exciting.

Jenny:
We had dinner.

Chris Seiter:
Also, a little bit scary. Are you nervous about that?

Jenny:
We had talked about it before the breakup. It wasn’t completely shocking, but it was kind of… He had gone from the iffy, “Well, maybe,” to, “Okay, let’s look at this house.”

Chris Seiter:
Well, what’s interesting about the situation to me is mostly how it ended. Did you ever have an opportunity to sit down with your boyfriend and say, “What was going through your mind when you broke up with me?”

Jenny:
I did. What he claimed was going through his mind is there was something that he had been kind of struggling on a personal level that he hadn’t… I guess he just was kind of scared to tell me. Instead of wanting to tell me, he just kind of was like, “Well, I’m just going to keep you from it. I’m just going to leave you.”

Chris Seiter:
It’s classical avoidant approach to the-

Jenny:
Oh my gosh, yes.

Chris Seiter:
Is that in line with his personality? Is he kind of more of like an avoidant type tendencies?

Jenny:
Yes, he is. When we would get in a fight, he was the one that needed space and didn’t want to talk. I’d have to sit around, and wait, and wait for him to get ready to talk. It is in line with his personality in that if he’s dealing with something, I’ll find out later on down the road. I’m not going to find out if he’s got-

Chris Seiter:
He’s like, “I’m going to deal with it myself. I don’t need help from anyone.”

Jenny:
Right.

Chris Seiter:
Which is really classic avoidant attachment. They’re very independent, so they feel like they can deal with the problems themselves. They don’t want to include anyone else to help them. Of course, you seem like the kind that would love to help solve problems. In some ways, that’s an avoidant’s worst nightmare because they’re like, “No, I can do it myself.” They push you away.

Chris Seiter:
I don’t think this is a case of, the grass is greener, where he thinks, “Oh, I could find someone better.” I think this is a case of, you’re getting a little too close. I’m getting scared, so I’m going to push you away. Then now that he’s away, he starts to have nostalgic reverie based on your past relationship. He’s like, “Oh crap. What have I done?” He regrets the decision. He comes back. Do you think that’s in line with what happened, or is there an element that I’m missing here?

Jenny:
No. I mean, it sounds pretty right on. He was very like, “I want to deal with this myself.” Then after having some time away, he’s like, “I really need you. I really need you in my life.” Not to his own fault, but I’m the kind of person that I kind of have to put up a boundary. I’m not going to do this for you. You have to figure this out on your own because I want to help so hard. That’s something that I have to work on myself, is I want to help you, but I can’t do it for you.

Chris Seiter:
I don’t know about you, but I was always taught, maybe from viewing my parents, that when couples are having struggles, you help each other, right? For me, when I would start dating and date someone who had avoidant tendencies, it was almost like help… I wanted to get in there and solve the problem. It took me a long time to realize, like what you said, you have to almost stop yourself and be like, no, they have to solve the problem.

Chris Seiter:
A lot of times, I’d be dating someone. They’d be crying. I’d be like, “Why are you crying? I’ll fix it. What’s wrong?” It was really hard for me to sit back and be like, I need to let them feel what they’re feeling. Do you feel like there was any of that where you’re like me, where you’re just like, “No, I’m going to help solve the problem,” and then just sort of backing up and being, no, I’m going to let them feel what they’re feeling?

Jenny:
I am that person. I’m the, please don’t cry. What can I do to help you?

Chris Seiter:
Right.

Jenny:
How do we use fix this? I’m that person. He’s kind of the opposite, in that, “Oh, you’re crying. Maybe I should just give you some space.”

Chris Seiter:
My wife is the same way. I don’t really cry that much, but when something’s bothering me… A classic example is when someone gets sick or when my wife gets sick, if I try to help her, she’s like, “No, stop.” If I get sick, I’m like, “No. No, come help. Dote on me.”

Jenny:
Do all the things.

Chris Seiter:
Right, yes.

Jenny:
That’s pretty much the same for us too. I think in the opposite way, he wants to do it himself. He’s fine by himself, doesn’t need help. Then ultimately, when you get there, you’re like, okay, maybe I do need your help. Maybe I do want you here. We got to the point where he admitted that he was struggling. I said, “Well, I can’t fix this for you, or I’m not going to fix this for you, but I’m still here. I’m still here for you. You don’t have to do this by yourself, even if it’s just me just sitting next to you so you’re not sitting by yourself.”

Jenny:
Ultimately, I think that’s where we got to. It was, again, like you said, very unexpected in that it happened and very unexpected in the way that we got back together too. I had gotten to that point where I was like, is this ever going to happen? Is he ever going to reach out? I definitely had those moments where I didn’t know for sure what was going to happen.

Chris Seiter:
Were you ever at a point emotionally, because I hear this a lot from success stories where they get to this point where they’re just… They’ve been through enough period of no contact without hearing from their ex. Things maybe are not going the way they were expecting. They’re sitting there and thinking to themselves, “You know what? I just don’t care about getting them back anymore.” They kind of confront that reality, and they’re okay with it. Was there ever a point that you got to where you felt that way?

Jenny:
I would probably say no, just because in the back of my head, I still wanted that reach-out. I still wanted him to reach out and say something, even if it was a closure conversation. I think, eventually, I would have got there had we not got back together or he had not reached out to me. I think I was going on a path where I would have felt that eventually. I had a really good support system. My friends were always there for me. I would pick up the phone, and they would answer. I think had I gone maybe another three months or another six months, I feel like I would have got to that point.

Chris Seiter:
I feel like that’s a really honest answer because the truth is, I think a lot of people, especially at the beginning, don’t get to that point emotionally, but it seems like you did a lot of behaviors that projected a more secure self than maybe he had viewed you as. Maybe he would view you as the person who was going to eat the tub of ice cream after the breakup versus instead, you’re going out, and doing a concert with your parents, and going out with friends, and posting these daily things on TikTok, or I guess across all social media platforms. You look happy.

Chris Seiter:
That almost creates this narrative in his head that, wow, is she doing better without me? It kind of reframes the way he thinks about you. I think that had to have made a difference at kind of lighting the fire a little bit. I think it wasn’t so much that that got him to come back. I think just basically, the way your breakup occurred had more to do with that than anything. It certainly had to help that you weren’t constantly nagging about… Well, I don’t know. Did you nag at all about, why did you break up with me? Explain. Like that, or was it more of just the approach where you’re just waiting back and seeing?

Jenny:
Well, I actually surprised myself because I am that person that’s naggy. In the past, I would blow up his phone. I would text him. I would call over, and over, and over. Like you mentioned, I think he might have expected that right away. I think he, as soon as the breakup happened… Or as soon as the breakup happened, I was that way. I was begging. “What are you doing? Why are we breaking up? What’s going on? Don’t leave me.”

Chris Seiter:
That’s normal.

Jenny:
Right. Then right after, I was like, “Can we talk? I want to talk. Tell me what’s going on.”

Chris Seiter:
Again, very normal.

Jenny:
Right. In that kind of short period right after, I was that. Then, I think I said the third day or something like that, I was just kind of looking, how do I get my ex back?

Chris Seiter:
Right.

Jenny:
Then I kind of started filling my time with, okay, well, what can I do different this time that, obviously, in the past, when I’m nagging, that doesn’t work, right? How am I going to do this different? How do I actually get him back? How do I actually do that?

Jenny:
I surprised myself in that… Okay, I’m just going to be positive. I’m just going to do things for me. I’m going to keep working out. I’m going to go with my friends. I’m going to keep doing things that make me happy so that I don’t feel sad, so that I don’t feel hurt because I didn’t want to feel that. It was kind of more focused on what’s going to help me versus what’s going to help me get him back.

Jenny:
Ultimately, he saw that. Ultimately, he saw, “Oh, well, Jenny’s not blowing up my phone. Why isn’t she blowing up my phone? She’s posting all these really positive things on Facebook. Why does she look so happy?” He did actually make that comment of, “Maybe me leaving made you better after.”

Chris Seiter:
Right.

Jenny:
I definitely think that that had a good impact on it. Like you said, I don’t think it had the reason why he came back, but it definitely had a different impact than what my previous personality would have done.

Chris Seiter:
Well, I think it just is the contrast between two almost… I don’t want to say there’s two versions of you.

Jenny:
Right.

Chris Seiter:
In his mind, he’s thinking before the breakup versus after the breakup. One thing that I notice, especially with people who go through breakups, is they act exactly how you act, where they’re just trying to understand why the breakup’s occurring. The first few days, they’re blowing their ex’s phone up. Then really, I think the clock starts after they have those normal reactions because a lot of women and men act that way for weeks afterwards. Sometimes it can get really contentious. When you almost do this behavior, you create a certain standard. If you do something to contrast that standard, it really makes a gigantic difference.

Chris Seiter:
I think you said something incredibly insightful, which is that stuff that you’re talking about, all the social media postings and kind of making yourself feel happy away from your ex wasn’t the thing that got him back fully. I think that’s so key because the more I’ve been doing this, the more I realize there’s not one thing that you do that gets to success. It’s usually just throwing the kitchen sink.

Jenny:
Right.

Chris Seiter:
We know it works, but it’s impossible to pinpoint all of these things. Plus, it seems to me it was more based on your ex’s or your boyfriend now’s personal situation, and him projecting that onto you, and protecting himself, more than anything, that really led to sort of the chess pieces being set where they were set at the beginning of this breakup.

Jenny:
Right. I’m not a big numbers person, but he is. Sometimes I pay attention to statistics and stuff like that. I kept looking at the numbers that said, “If it’s this kind of breakup, then this is the chance, or if it’s this kind of break up, this is the chance.” I was like, “Well, I don’t have that. I don’t have that.”

Chris Seiter:
You kind of have a general breakup to me, at least. I mean, there’s a little bit of… Just, if you want to get numbers-based, we notice that most of our clients tend to have exes that exhibit avoidant behaviors. Most of our clients tend to be the anxious type of behaviors because if you really think about it and distill it down, the people who are going to be going to Google and searching how to get your ex back are going to be people who are extremely anxious and value the relationship extremely highly.

Chris Seiter:
While I think that is something to be commended, when it comes to getting this person back, you almost need to exhibit secure behaviors. I think secure behaviors is allowing yourself time to grieve and then being like, okay, I’ll be okay. A lot of those behaviors that you’re doing is sort of, I think, exhibiting that, I’m going to be okay. What we find is there’s almost a gravity between people who have secure behaviors. They almost draw other people towards them.

Chris Seiter:
Let’s use your boyfriend as an example. If he has avoidant tendencies and you are more secure, he will subconsciously begin to gravitate more towards secure behaviors on his own. It kind of is a way of killing two birds with one stone. You can help yourself get them back but also help keep him once you get him back. That’s one of the really interesting things that we’ve noticed with attachment styles. We’ve been kind of on attachment styles kick lately. Sorry if I’m boring you with all the technical mumbo-jumbo.

Jenny:
No, I’ve actually heard that before I even ran across your program. I had actually been looking at secure behaviors, and what that looks like, and the different stages of relationships, and how you get to that point eventually because when you’re new, it’s not something that comes natural. To your point, I was thinking during the breakup, “What can I do now that I can continue to do if we get back together?” I’m hitting the gym four or five days a week right now. Am I going to continue to do that if and when we get back together? I’m going out with my parents more. Am I going to continue to do that even after?

Jenny:
I told myself, yes. I want to do these things. You don’t change your schedule to meet with them. If they ask you to meet and you have plans, you don’t change your schedule. I continue to do that. He’ll want to come over. Tonight would be a night that he would come over, but I’m going to my cousin’s birthday party dinner. Sorry, I can’t meet with you today. In the past, I probably would have changed my schedule. I probably would’ve said, “Oh, well, I’ll just go to the dinner late.” I’m not doing that anymore because I feel like I’ll see you next time.

Chris Seiter:
Well, it takes a lot of confidence to do that.

Jenny:
That’s been a change for me.

Chris Seiter:
Well, yes, I think to your point, just using the example of the dinner tonight or whatever, in the past, you’re probably… The narrative anxious people have in their heads is, “If I don’t see him, I could lose him.”

Jenny:
Right.

Chris Seiter:
The narrative that secure people have is, “I will see him later, so it’s okay to push it off another day.” I think that shift for most people going through this program is an extremely difficult one to have because it requires a lot of self-confidence to be like, it’s going to be okay, because a lot of people don’t think that, especially if they’ve already been proven to be in a situation where they’ve been hurt through a breakup. They’re on red alert all the time.

Jenny:
I definitely have that past history. I have had that where I’ve been in a relationship. I go chasing and get them back. Then they leave, and then I go chasing and get them back. Then it’s just-

Chris Seiter:
A circle.

Jenny:
This really bad cycle. I had made it in my mind. I was like, this is really what I want, that I’m going to do. I have to do it differently. I have to do something different because all of that stuff I’ve done in the past, that didn’t work.

Chris Seiter:
Well, I actually really love this interview because we’re getting into the stuff that really matters. A lot of people talk about the no-contact rule, and the value chain of the value ladder, and concepts like that. The truth is it doesn’t matter if you don’t have the mentality that you have, which is, it’s going to be okay even if things don’t go my way. If you have that mentality, when you implement that stuff, I think it works really, really well.

Chris Seiter:
I mean, technically, I guess you did the small talk value chain sort of thing, but it was so disjointed because of… He asked for you back without you really even having to do a ton of work. You did do work, whether you realize it or not. It just kind of shows you the value of show, don’t tell. I think some women in the Facebook group have a problem with telling their exes how great they’re doing without them. You showed your ex how great you’re doing without them. That’s always more effective in my opinion.

Jenny:
I think, just, that space really gave me that time to do that. You said you have to get to a point where you’re okay. I did not feel okay. I was definitely not okay the whole time. There was moments. That’s something that I think would help people in the future, is you’re not going to feel this overwhelming, I’m going to be just fine, the whole time. It comes little tiny bits at a time.

Chris Seiter:
Yes, especially when you draw attention to it. When you’re thinking about, oh, I need to be feeling better, it’s hard to feel better, when you’re just constantly obsessed about what he’s doing, if he’s dating someone, things like that. To your point, success is not linear.

Jenny:
Right. I remember sitting there with my parents and I’m like, oh, this is so nice. He would really like this. Then I’m like, I really like this. Just those little moments where you want them to be there, but you’re okay that they’re not.

Chris Seiter:
It’s kind of weird, too, if you think about it because it’s that whole… We’re taught in relationships. It needs to be about we instead of me, but after you go through a breakup, it kind of needs to shift from we to me.

Jenny:
Right.

Chris Seiter:
Looking back, Jenny, on your whole experience of going through the breakup, going through the program, what you feel worked, what you feel didn’t work, someone going through it at the beginning, what advice would you give to them?

Jenny:
I would definitely say, don’t give up. I think that was really hard for me in the beginning, is to keep going. You have to kind of do a little bit at a time. For me, it was, in two hours, I’m going to text my best friend and just tell her that I feel sad if I’m feeling sad, or I’m going to text her… In two hours, I’m going to tell her however I’m feeling. Don’t give up, and then allow time. That one was really, really hard for me. Every day is a little bit more time and a little bit more time. That time really, really makes a difference.

Jenny:
We talk about this no-contact rule. In the moment, I was like, there’s no way. I can’t do that. That’s way too hard. I think a lot of people have that feeling, big time. I see it all the time in the Facebook group. This is so hard. I just want to reach out. Really, every day that you give it time makes the success even better. It makes the chances of it even better. If I was talking to me a month ago, I would just say, don’t give up. Just give it time. Keep giving it time, for sure.

Chris Seiter:
That’s great. I just want to say, thank you so much for coming on. This is a really great interview.

Jenny:
I appreciate it. Thank you.